public. He has no other authority for what he said than the public papers; they do not bear him out. To say, on the ground of what is publicly known, that the government of the United States interfered, "directly and palpably," with the proceedings in New York, is wholly to misconceive and mistake the transaction. There was no demand for the delivery of McLeod to the United States; there was no attempt to arrest the proceedings of the New York court. Mr. Fox was told that these proceedings must go on, until they were judicially termi nated; that McLeod was in confinement, by judicial process, and could only be released by judicial process under the same authority. All this is plainly stated in the instructions to Mr. Crittenden, and no man who reads that paper can fall into any mistake about it. There was no "direct and palpable" interference with the New York courts, nor any interference at all. The Governor of New York did not think there was, nor did any body else ever think there was, who informed himself of the facts of the case.

Mr. President, the honorable Senator from Ohio bestowed, I believe, a very considerable degree of attention upon topics connected with the treaty of Washington. It so happened that my engagements did not permit me to be in the Senate during the delivery of any considerable portion of that speech. I was present occasionally, however, and heard some parts of it. I have not been able to find any particular account of the honorable member's remarks. In the only printed speech by him on which I have been able to lay my hands, it is said that he took occasion to speak, in general terms, of various topics, enumerating them, embraced in the treaty of 1842. As I have not seen those remarks, I shall not now undertake to make any further allusion to them. If I should happen to see them hereafter, so far as I may believe that they have not been answered by what I have already said, or may now say, I may, perhaps, deem it worth while to embrace some opportunity of taking such notice of them as they may seem to require.

MR. ALLEN. I will state, for the satisfaction of the Senator, the general substance of what I said on the subject. If he so desires, I will now proceed to do so.

* Mr. Allen.

I think that, upon the whole, when the gentleman shall furnish the public with a copy of his speech, I may, perhaps, have a more proper opportunity to pay attention to it, especially as I have to say something of other speeches, which may at present occupy as much of the time of the Senate as can well be devoted to this subject.

The honorable member from New York, nearest the chair," made a speech on this subject, of which I propose to take some notice. Before doing so I shall take notice of the “extracts from the speech of Mr. C. J. Ingersoll, in the House of Repre sentatives," which he has borrowed and incorporated into his speech by way of note.

Mr. Dickinson explained that he was not responsible for the statement in the note to his speech, and that he did not make the extracts from Mr. Ingersoll's speech a part of his own. Mr. Webster proceeded.

The passage quoted by the gentleman from New York from the speech of Mr. C. J. Ingersoll is as follows:

"Out of this controversy arose the arrest of Alexander McLeod. What he intended to state now consisted of facts not yet generally known, but which would soon be made known, for they were in progress of publication, and he had received them in no confidence, from the best authority. When McLeod was arrested, General Harrison had just died, and Mr. Tyler was not yet at home as his successor. Mr. Webster, who was de facto the administration, Mr. Webster wrote to the Governor of New York, with his own hand, a letter, and sent it by express, marked 'private,' in which the Governor was told that he must release McLeod, or see the magnificent commercial emporium laid in ashes. The brilliant description given by the gentleman from Virginia of the prospective destruction of that city in the case of a war was, in a measure, anticipated on this occasion. McLeod must be released, said the Secretary of State, or New York must be laid in ashes. The Governor asked when this would be done. The reply was, forthwith. Do you not see coming on the waves of the sea the Paixhan guns? and if McLeod be not released New York will be destroyed. But, said the Governor, the power of pardon is vested in me, and even if he be convicted, he may be pardoned. O, no, said the Secretary, if you even try him, you will bring destruction on yourselves."

Notwithstanding the circumstantial detail of facts in the fore

* Mr. Dickinson.

† Mr. Ingersoll.

going passage, they are wholly without foundation. It is implied that a correspondence consisting of an exchange of letters took place between me and the Governor of New York. A single letter only, which I shall presently read to the Senate, was written by me; and the entire detail of the supposed contents of the correspondence; the conflagration "of the commercial emporium," the "Paixhan guns," the assertion ascribed to me, that "McLeod must be released or New York must be laid in ashes," the repetition of this remark in a subsequent letter, the intimation of the Governor of New York that he had the pardoning power, and my alleged reply, that, "if you even try McLeod, you will bring destruction on yourselves"; I say, Sir, this entire detail is imaginary, and altogether destitute of foundation in fact.

The following are the circumstances as they actually occurred. When McLeod was arrested, there was a good deal of conversation in Washington and elsewhere about what would happen. It was a subject of very considerable conversation, and certainly of embarrassment to the government. It was hoped and expected by me, and I believe by the President and other members of the Cabinet, that the Governor of New York would see that it was a case in which, if he were invested with authority by the constitution and the laws of the State, he would recommend the entering of a nolle prosequi by the prosecuting officer of the State of New York. It was expected that he would do so, and General Harrison one day said to me, that he had received a letter from a friend, in which he was informed that the Governor of New York had made up his mind to take that course, and that he was very glad of it, as it relieved the general government from its embarrassment. It was about

the time that the Attorney-General was to proceed to New York to see how the matter stood, or perhaps a day or two after he had left Washington. The case was to be tried within ten days, at Lockport, in the western part of that State. Having received this information, General Harrison directed me to write a note of thanks to the Governor, stating that he thought he had done exactly what was proper, and by so doing had relieved the government from some embarrassment, and the country from some danger of collision with a foreign power. And that is every thing said in that letter, or any other letter written

by me to the Governor of the State of New York, marked priThe letter is here if any one wishes to see it, or to hear it

vate. read.

Mr. Crittenden suggested that the letter should be read.

Very well. Here it is, I will read it.

"(Private.)

"Department of State, Washington, March 17th, 1841.

"MY DEAR SIR, The President has learned, not directly, but by means of a letter from a friend, that you had expressed a disposition to direct a nolle prosequi in the case of the indictment against McLeod, on being informed by this government that the British government has officially avowed the attack on the Caroline as an act done by its own authority. The President directs me to express his thanks for the promptitude with which you appear disposed to perform an act, which he supposes proper for the occasion, and which is calculated to relieve this government from embarrassment, and the country from some danger of collision with a foreign power.

"You will have seen Mr. Crittenden, whom I take this occasion to commend to your kindest regard.

"I have the honor to be, yours, truly,

"HIS EXCELLENCY, WM. H. SEWARD,

Governor of New York."

"DANIEL Webster.

MR. MANGUM. Was that the only letter written?

Yes, the only letter; the only private letter ever written by me to the Governor of New York in the world.

The speech quoted by the gentleman from New York proceeds: "The next step taken by the administration was to appoint a district attorney, who was to be charged with the defence of Alexander McLeod, the gentleman who was lately removed from office, and a fee of five thousand dollars was put into his hands for this purpose." This statement, Sir, is entirely unfounded. The government of the United States had no more to do than the government of France with the employment of Mr. Spencer for the defence of McLeod. They never interfered with his appointment in the slightest degree. It is true, they furnished to Mr. Spencer, as they would have furnished to any other counsel, the official correspondence, to prove that the gov. ernment of Great Britain avowed the act of the destruction of

the Caroline as their own. The speech continues: "Application was afterwards made to the chief justice of the State of New York for the release of McLeod. The judge did not think proper to grant the application. The marshal was about to let him go, when he was told that he must do it at his peril; and that, if McLeod went out of prison, he should go in." I do not know what the marshal had to do with the case. McLeod was in prison under the authority of the State of New York. I do not know how it was possible that the marshal, an officer of the United States, could interfere.

But there are some other matters in the speech to which I must refer. "He would call on the honorable member from Massachusetts to sustain him in what he was about to say." I do not find that the honorable member from Massachusetts has yet sustained him in these statements, and I rather think he never will. He asserts that I wrote to the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the House on that subject, asking an outfit and a salary for a special minister to England to settle the Oregon question. This statement is as destitute of foundation as those to which I have already alluded. I never wrote such a letter, to the best of my recollection. "These are facts," he says, "which no one will dispute." I dispute them. I say I have no recollection of them at all. I do not believe Mr. Adams has any recollection of any such note being written by me. If I had written such a note, I think I should remember it.

The author of the speech next proceeds to a topic no way connected with what he has been discussing.

Here Mr. Webster read an extract from the speech of Mr. Ingersoll, charging him (Mr. W.) with offering to give Oregon for free trade with England, in a speech made at a public dinner, in Baltimore, May, 1843.

Here by me sits a Senator from Maryland,† who was present at that dinner, and heard my speech; and if I needed a witness beyond my own statement and printed speech, I could readily call upon him. In that speech, I did not mention Oregon, nor allude to it in the remotest degree. The statement that I did so is wholly unfounded in fact. The author of this speech was not there. If he knew any thing about it, he must have acquired † Mr. Johnson.

* Mr. Adams.