Mr. BARTON. What would be the rate per pound from Seattle to Ketchikan on that second example? Mr. ISON. That is 1 pound less. Mr. BARTON. Yes. Mr. IsoN. Now, the freight-now this is not including the Los Angeles to Seattle freight. Mr. BARTON. No. Just from Seattle here. Mr. IsoN. Is $379.17 for 1,099 pounds. Senator BARTLETT. Have you any further questions? Mr. BARTON. These commodity rates: are those truck or rail, combined with water? Mr. IsoN. This, what I am giving you here is the Los Angeles Motor Terminal Express out of Los Angeles in-I am giving you the truck rates into the Seattle dock. This other rate here is cubed, and it is 602 cents a square foot, into here; you see what potato chips would amount to a bag if you had to cube that to come in here; it was prohibitive to ship them in. That does not-that is what I am getting at is here: on this first example, there is $24.40 terminal charge in Seattle. The terminals charge here is $48. Now, we have got terminal charges in Seattle going to Anchorage or Fairbanks; we have got terminal charges in Seward; the people of Seward, when I was selling, the people of Seward would ship their merchandise to Moose Pass, address it to Moose Pass, and pick it up ina truck and bring it back to the town of Seward cheaper than they would let them take it off of the dock at Seward. It goes into the railroad car, it is loaded, it is hauled to Moose Pass by train, unloaded, and put on a truck, and brought back and unloaded cheaper than the people can get it in Seward. Senator BARTLETT. Thank you, Jess. Any other questions that you would like to ask? Mr. BARTON. No; no further questions. Senator BARTLETT. Now, I am sure that there must be-ah, yes; oh, my goodness, yes. I was looking for you here this morning. Captain Adlum. STATEMENT OF CAPT. MERLE D. ADLUM, OF SEATTLE, WASH., REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MASTERS, MATES AND PILOTS LOCAL 6 Captain ADLUM. At long last. Capt. Merle D. Adlum. I am a representative of the Masters, Mates & Pilots Local 6, and of the Inlandboatmen's Union of the Pacific, and represent some 4,000 men engaged in the towing and ferry industries, construction, petroleum, and freight on the Pacific coast, having offices in San Diego, San Pedro, San Francisco, Columbia River, Seattle, and Alaska. Senator BARTLETT. And you receive your mail where? Captain ADLUM. Room 117, pier 53, in Seattle. I met with Senator Bartlett briefly last night in regards to the ferry situation, and he suggested that I appear here. I do not have any prepared program with me, and all the statistics that I received in regards to the two or three surveys that have been made on the ferries are in my office in Seattle. I don't wish to appear here as controversial to the program as I understand is underway, as far as the ferries are concerned, which will include the use of three large vessels, but I did want to, and I felt I would be derelict unless I brought out the points and hoped that the committee, and the people that have been talking up this ferry, have explored all the aspects of using the smaller type ferry system, more on a hedgehopping program, than the three large vessels on a direct route from Prince Rupert through to Haines. I would like to point up a few of the reasons why we feel that in studying these, that the plan that was formulated along the lines of the Titkov plan: (1) The three large vessels would necessarily have to be drydocked in Seattle; I am sure they would have to be for all the major repairs and work that would be done on them would necessarily have to be done in Seattle or Puget Sound ports, because of the facilites here in Alaska not being able to accommodate that large a vessel; whereas, some of the smaller type, and still large enough to be adequate for this run, could be handled, I believe, in the N.C. yards in the port of Juneau, thereby keeping a lot more work for resident workers in the Alaska area, and probably creating some new work. The runs as outlined in the Gitkov report, using a few more vessels but of a smaller type, would be of a much more frequent service; the wintertime schedules could be cut down, and thereby saving a tremendous amount in labor cost; by adding more vessels in the summertime, as this trade grew, and reducing it to fewer vessels in the wintertime. From the surveys that I have seen, it appears that it takes some 60 or 70 men to man one of these larger vessels if you include the steward's department, and all departments necessary; whereas, most of the ferries on Puget Sound are operating with what we call the 8- or 10hour crews, with crews of around 8 to 12 men. I feel that the licenses and certificates that are required on the smaller vessels could probably be a lot more local help and talent around here adapted to this new operation, whereas with the larger vessels, perhaps most of the help will have to be recruited out of the Puget Sound or down the coast areas. Using again the smaller vessels, even those licensed personnel or certificated personnel that would come up here, if the vessels remained up here and were serviced up here, I feel would become citizens of the State of Alaska, on a permanent basis, and would lend more to the building up of the population in this area, and for every amount of population that you bring into the area, you create some more population that is necessary to serve them. By extending these roads out, and as the operation grows, for instance, a road going up Behm Canal, we feel that there is some surplus ferries that will could be purchased at a fraction of the cost of new construction, whereby this hedgehopping program I speak of, could be incorporated; for instance, a small ferry running across Behm Canal to a road across Cleveland Peninsula that would connect with the southern end of Wrangell Island, which has a road more than half the way down to the point now, and is very feasible and adaptable for another road; or for the balance of that road; then a short ferry running across from Wrangell to the southern end of Mitkof Island, which road is now under construction, and which will be completed, I think, sometime in the next year. The next run, of course, would be from the north end of the Mitkof Island on up to Juneau; you already have a ferry run from Tee Harbor to Haines and Skagway; and it just appears to be a much more flexible plan. I feel that even some of the freight problems that have been listened to here this afternoon, if this ferry system would be incorporated into that freight problem, I know that one of the problems, as far as the tugs and barges are concerned, in bringing refrigerated vans into this area, is the freight or port facilities; and all the surveys that have been made on this problem show that they can't afford to set up such port facilities in each and every one of these small towns; but with an adequate ferry system, they could set up one centralized port facility, and then disburse this freight via the ferries. I probably have a lot more points that I would like to bring out, but as I say, I wasn't prepared, and I would like to submit to this committee a written report along these lines. Senator BARTLETT. Captain, you may do that. We will be happy to receive it; and I notice that Mr. Sharp of the southeastern conference has cocked an attentive ear, as you spoke, and probably there will be an opportunity for you to talk with him and his colleagues, too, about this. Captain ADLUM. I would like to say for their benefit, that I hope that I haven't appeared to be controversial; and my mind is sure open to any suggestions or their own program, and if they can convince me that ours is wrong, why, we would withdraw any more testimony on this one. Senator BARTLETT. From long experience, I would say that Mr. Sharp is a terrific convincer. Captain ADLUM. I would add that I grew up in the ferry industry, and worked actively some 10 years on ferries, myself-from a dishwasher to a captain-and I have watched Puget Sound grow, and I thing a lot of my thinking is derived from some of the good things that they did on Puget Sound as well as some of the mistakes that they made on Puget Sound, and I have actively represented one of the largest ferry industries in their labor contracts for the past 6 years; so I am pretty versed on the problems in the ferry industry, I feel. Senator BARTLETT. You have a familiarity, I can tell. [Laughter.] Thank you, Captain. Now, as there are no further witnesses, the committee will stand in recess until it reconvenes in Juneau. (Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., October 20, 1959, the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at Juneau on Thursday, October 22, 1959.) ALASKAN AND HAWAIIAN TRANSPORTATION THURSDAY, OCTOBER 22, 1959 U. S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND FOREIGN COMMERCE, Senator BARTLETT. The meeting will please come to order. It is a particular pleasure for me to be here again in Juneau and to see so many of my old and good friends. And I should like to introduce, for the Juneauites who are here, the members of the staff who are accompanying me on this trip to Alaska and others who are attending the hearing in the various communities. This is a session of the Senate Interstate and Foreign Commerce Committee. We are represented, as I shall indicate later, by counsel for the House Interstate and Foreign Commerce Committee, and it is our hope and expectation that at Anchorage, members of the House committee will arrive, and then we will be conducting a joint hearing. On my right is Frank Barton, who is transportation counsel for the Senate committee; on my left is Harold Baynton, chief counsel for the Senate committee; and sitting on Mr. Baynton's left is Mr. Perley, whose official title is legislative counsel for the U.S. House of Representatives, but who, in his present capacity, is acting as counsel for the House committee. And at my far right, sitting in a very dignified manner at the legislative table, is Harry Huse of the committee. And we have the pleasure again of having with us Commissioner Romick of the State department of commerce. Commissioner Romick was good enough to go to Ketchikan to participate in the hearings there, hearings which have, of course, a real importance for the State in general, and his department of the State government, in particular. And in the gallery are several other people who are accompanying this committee. First, I should like to mention Commissioner Lawrence Walrath of the Interstate and Foreign Commerce CommissionInterstate I got "Foreign" in there inadvertently; and then, there is from Anchorage, the Alaska representative of that Commission, Mr. William Mehan; and Mr. Henry Whitehouse, attorney with the ICC; and Mr. Fred Lordan, of Seattle, who has participated in previous hearings on these subjects in Washington; and there will be present soon, I expect, and hope, Mr. William Thompson, of the Association of American Railroads; and also the vice president of Alaska Steamship Co., the Washington, D.C., representative of that company, Mr. Henry W. Clark. And it should be mentioned, naturally, that the Federal Maritime Board, which has a vital interest in these hearings, is represented at Juneau, and I hope in the other hearings throughout Alaska, by Mr. Stakem. There are before us a number of bills, pertaining mainly to transportation, in which the people of Alaska have an interest. Notices were issued several weeks ago that these hearings were to be held and that the people of Juneau were invited and urged to express themselves on these bills. Before we hear the first witness, who will be Mr. Frank Doogan, representing the Juneau Chamber of Commerce, I shall give a brief description of each of the bills on which the hearings are being held: 1. S. 1507, to make the Interstate Commerce Act applicable to transportation by water between Alaska ports and other ports in the United States. 2. S. 1508, to provide for economic regulation of the Alaska Railroad under the Interstate Commerce Act. 3. S. 2451, H.R. 8521, and H.R. 8564, companion bills, to establish a joint board for through routes and joint rates and to make mandatory through routes and joint rates by carriers engaged in transportation of property between Alaska or Hawaii, and other States. 4. S. 2452, H.R. 8520, and H.R. 8565, companion bills, to establish a joint board and to permit the filing of through routes and joint rates for carriers engaged in transportation of property between Alaska or Hawaii and the other States. 5. S. 2514, to establish the Alaska Railroad as a Government corporation. 6. H.R. 6244, to provide grandfather rights for motor carriers and freight forwarders operating within Alaska and between Alaska and other States and for other water carriers operating within Alaska; to provide for Interstate Commerce Commission regulation of the Alaska Railroad; and to make the Interstate Commerce Act applicable to for-hire water carriers operating between ports of Alaska and ports of other States. I will insert copies of the above-mentioned bills into the record at this point. Additionally, there is a bill, S. 2669, before the committee, introduced in the closing days of the session, to permit an extension for a 4-year period of the arrangement now in effect, by law, for the operation of certain charter ships in the Alaska trade. There are two bills relating to a proposed ferry service in Alaska, one, S. 1956, which would provide construction subsidiaries and the other, S. 2661, of which would make Federal funds available for certain access roads to the ferry terminals and for certain terminal facilities. The committee will be glad to hear testimony on these bills, as well, and testimony from any organization or individual on any other legislative matter within the jurisdiction of the committee. And I want to emphasize that anyone here in Juneau who wishes to testify will receive a welcome. It is not the committee's desire or intention to restrict receipt of testimony to Government agencies, Government officials, or to organized groups. And now, Mr. Doogan, the committee will be happy to hear from you as the representative of the Juneau Chamber of Commerce. Mr. DOOGAN. Thank, you, Senator Bartlett. |