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Wilson of Iowa.
Jones of Arkansas, Plumb,
Jones of Florida, Riddleberger,
Jones of Nevada, Sawyer,
Wilson of Md.
Mitchell of Pa.,
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question recurs on the amendment to the amendment.
Mr. BROWN. I ask leave to amend the original amendment by striking out one word and inserting another. As I now have it, it reads:
Nothing in this act shall be construed to prohibit any common carrier from giving reduced rates or free passes to ministers of the gospel.
I desire to say “ministers of religion," instead of “ministers of the gospel.” The latter expression, I understand, would exclude the ministers of some religious associations in the United States because they do not pretend to preach the gospel.
Mr. EDMUNDS. What ministers are those ?
Mr. BROWN. Preaching the Gospel is generally considered to apply to the New Testament.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment as modified will be read.
Mr. BROWN. I strike out the words “the gospel" and insert the word “religion."
The CHIEF CLERK. The amendment as modified is to insert in section 20, line 6, after the work “tickets:”
Nothing in this act shall be construed to prohibit any common carrier from giving reduced rates or free passes to ministers of religion.
Mr. HARRIS. I renew my amendment to strike out“or free passes, and reiterate that I do so because under the bill as it stands I hold that the companies have the authority to grant such a pass if they choose to do so, without such legislation as this.
Mr. BROWN. I do not think they have, and I ask for the yeas and nays.
The PRESIDENT pro te mpore. The Senator from Georgia asks for the yeas and nays on the adoption of the amendment of the Senator from Tennessee (Mr. HARRIS) to the amendment.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
Mr. INGALLS. I did not clearly understand the effect of the amendment of the Senator from Tennessee.
Mr. HARRIS. If my amendment is agreed to it will give the railroad companies power to discriminate in favor of special and lower rates to clergymen. I offer the amendment because inserting the words “or free passes" may tend to construe the bill so that it would not allow the railroad companies to give free passes to anybody else if they chose to do so.
Mr. HOAR. It is very clear that if the original amendment passes without the amendment of the Senator from Tennessee (Mr. HARRIS) my friend from Kansas (Mr. INGALLS) can not have his free passes ang longer unless he preaches the gospel. (Laughter.]
Mr. BROWN. I see gentlemen are about to vote under a misunderstanding of the question. Let my amendment be read from the desk.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment will be again read.
The Chief Clerk read the amendment of Mr. Brown, and the amendment to the amendment.
Mr. CULLOM. As I understand, the Senator leaves out the words “ or free passes."
Mr. BROWN. No, the motion is to strike them out. The bill provides as it now stands:
That nothing in this act shall apply to the carriage, storage, or handling of property free or at reduced rates for the United States, State, or municipal governments, or for charitable purposes, or to or from fairs and expositions for exhibition thereat, or the issuance of mileage, excursion, or commutation passenger tickets.
Then my amendment comes in after the word “tickets," and the provision is made here as to the class it refers to for free tickets or free transportation in the exception. Why should there not be free or reduced rates in the case of clergymen?
Mr. CULLOM. While I do not believe that the amendment is at all necessary in view of the general provisions of the bill, it the amendment of the Senator from Tennessee (Mr. HARRIS) to the amendment is adopted, I have no objection to it personally.
Mr. BROWN. If that is adopted it is worth nothing.
Mr. DAWES. What is the pending question on which we are about to vote?
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the amendment of the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. HARRIS] to the amendment of the Senator from Georgia (Mr. BROWN], which will be again read.
The Chief Clerk read the amendment and the amendment to the amendment.
The Secretary proceeded to call the roll.
Mr. CHACE (when his name was called). I am paired with the Senator from Georgia (Mr. COLQUITT].
Mr. PALMER (when Mr. CONGER's name was called). My colleague [Mr. CONGER) is not here. If he were here he would vote "yea."
The roll-call was concluded.
Mr. MANDERSON. I am paired with the Senator from Kentucky [Mr. BLACKBURN). The result was announced-yeas 31, nays 16; as follows:
Mitchell of Oreg., Spooner,
Wilson of Md.
Wilson of Iowa.
Jones of Florida, Plumb,
Jones of Nevada, Riddleberger,
Mitchell of Pa.,
Jones of Arkansas, Pike,
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question recurs on the amendment as amended.
Mr. EDMUNDS. Let it be read as it stands now.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment as amended will be read.
The CHIEF CLERK. After the word "tickets," in line 6 of section 20, insert:
Nothing in this act shall be construed to prohibit any common carrier from giving reduced rates to ministers of religion.
Mr. EDMUNDS. What has become of the remainder of the printed amendment as to "editors of newspapers, delegates to agricultural conventions," &c. ?
Mr. BROWN. That has not been offered yet. I desire to offer one amendment to the amendment. At the end of the amendment I desire to have inserted the words: Or free passes to blind persons.
Mr. CULLOM. I hope that Senators will not nibble at this bill all day in this sort of way. It seems to me that it we are going to pass any bill we ought to confine it to legitimate subjects for consideration. It has been voted here two or three times that the bill does not interfere with the issuance of passes. That has been declared by two or three yea-and-nay votes, and I certainly think it does not. I hope the Senator (who I believe is friendly to some legislation) will not interfere with the passage of the bill by offering amendments that have already been disposed of in effect.
Mr. BROWN: The Senator accuses me of nibbling at the bill. There are only a few little errors that I want to nibble out of it. I want to get the bill in a shape to get along with. I think there are some little defects that ought to be nibbled out. I have examined the bill very carefully, and I confess I can not find anything that authorizes me as an officer of a railroad to grant a pass to a blind man. I think it is prohibited as the bill now stands.
Mr. CULLOM. It seems to me that the votes of the Senate have twice declared very clearly that the bill does not interfere with the issuance of passes. I have no objection to the Senator offering his amendment, however,
Mr. EDMUNDS. I should like to know, under the bill as it now stands with the modified amendment of the Senator from Georgia, whether delegates to religious assemblies, that is, conventions of the Methodist Church, the Baptist Church, &c., are included? I wish to know what the amendment means which provides that free passes or reduced rates may be given to ministers?
Mr. CULLOM. The words “free passes ” were voted out.
Mr. EDMUNDS. Then leave out“ free passes." I wish to know what“ reduced rates to ministers" means if it does not imply that the delegates to any religious assembly, as the Senator's amendment originally was, are to be excluded, or whether the bill would permit a railroad company, if there was to be great Methodist convention at Atlanta, Ga., or at Burlington, Vt., to allow delegates to that convention to go at half-fare; that is, a full rate one way for going and returning?
Mr. BROWN. I do not understand that, as the bill now stands, any reduction of fares could be given, unless it came under the head of an excursion.
Mr. EDMUNDS. Then I want to bring it down further in the same line to the assemblies of the soldiers, who every year assemble and have their camp fires and reunion meetings, both North and South, I suppose; and people on the one side, at least, are thought to have deserved a good deal of their country; and on the other side, of that part of the country for which they fought. Now, I should like to know whether this bill would prevent a railroad company from giving half fare, as it is called, to a great soldiers' convention North or South-I am not on the question on which side they fought?
Mr. CULLOM. If the Senator will look at section 20 he will find these words :
That nothing in this act shall apply to the carriage, storage, or handling of property free or at reduced rates for the United States, State, or municipal gov. ernments, or for charitable purposes, or to or froin fairs and expositions for exhibition thereat, or the issuance of mileage, excursion, or commutation passenger tickets.
It seems to me that these words authorize the railroad companies to issue tickets at reduced rates to anybody who is going to a convention or soldiers' reunion, or whatever it may be.
Mr. EDMUND). Coming under the head of excursion tickets?
Mr. CULLOM. My observation is that they are always called excursion tickets, and always issued by railroads.
Mr. BROWN. In my section of country the railroads never issue them as excursion tickets. An “excursion” is where a large number of people want to go from one point to another for a sort of holiday or frolic, as they do sometimes. That is called "an excursion," or by our colored friends, who abbreviate it a little, "a 'scussion." But I do not understand that that would embrace a Methodist camp meeting such as the Senator from Vermont referred to. • Mr. CULLOM. Could not the railroad issue excursion tickets to the camp-meeting the Senator refers to ?
Mr. BROWN. Not in the usual acceptation of the term, not in the usual railroad phrase.
Mr. CULLOM. They may adapt the phrase to the law.
Mr. BROWN. I think as we have made these exceptions we had better perfect them by making them as they ought to be. I would agree with the Senator from Vermont in his suggestion that they ought to apply to soldiers on both sides. The railroad companies are not compelled to grant a free piss, only permitted to do so if they think proper.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair does not understand whether the Senator offers his amendment.
Mr. BROWN. I offer my amendment in reference to blind persons. I know they are very seldom provided for. They come to a railroad office and say, "I have a friend at the next city ! -perhaps 100 or 200 miles—"and he writes me that if I will come there he will do somethiny for me. I have not a dollar of money; I live on charity. Will you not give me a free pass ?
Mr. EDMUNDS. That would fall under the head of charity in the other part of the section.
Mr. BROWN. It might possibly fall there.
Mr. CULLOM. It seems to me perfectly clear that such cases are already provided for in the bill, and I hope the amendment will be voted down.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the amendment proposed by the Senator from Georgia to his own amendment.
The amendment to the amendment was rejected.
The PRESIDENT .pro tempore. The question recurs on the original amendment of the Senator from Georgia, as amended.
Mr. BROWN. I move further to amend by inserting as the language is in the print: The delegates to agricultural conventions or religious assemblies.
Simply giving a railroad company, if it chooses to do, right to grant reduced rates in such cases.
Mr. CULLOM. I hope it will be voted down. I do not care to discuss it further.
The CHIEF CLERK. Add to the proposed amendment the words: Or delegates to agricultural conventions or religious assemblies.
Mr. BROWN. Under no proper acceptation of the term is an agricultural convention called an excursion, nor is a Methodist camp-meeting or people going to it called an excursion.
Mr. EDMUNDS. Will you not please add, “or people who go to assemblages of military men?"
Mr. BROWN. I will, with pleasure.
Mr. EDMUNDS. I cannot move to amend it because it would be in the third degree.
Mr. BROWN. I accept it as part of my amendment if you will put it in shape.
Mr. EDMUNDS. Say " or assemblies of those who have been in the military service.”
Mr. HARRIS. I should like to ask the Senator from Vermont and the Senator from Georgia, or one or the other, if a thousand people were going from Washington to Baltimore to an agricultural convention or a military assemblage or a church convention or to any other meeting, could they not get excursion rates under this bill ?
Mr. PLATT and Mr. CULLOM. Certainly.
Mr. EDMUNDS. That is the very question in dispute between the Senator from Georgia and the Senator from Illinois.
Mr. HARRIS. I do not think there can be any dispute about it:
Mr. BROWN. I do not think they could if this bill becomes a law and the law is observed by the railroad companies. They must follow the usual practice and call things by their right names.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment of the Senator from Georgia as modified will be read.
The CHIEF CLERK. Add to the amendment the following: Or delegates to agricultural conventions or religious assemblies or assemblies of those who have been in the military service.
So as to read: Nothing in
be construed to prohibit any common carrier from giving reduced rutes to ministers of religion or delegates to agricultural conventions or religious Assemblies or assemblies of those who have been in the military service.