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important. I am not sure what the provision of the bill is. Is it that all facilities of the Bureau of Mines are turned over?

Delegate BARTLETT. There is no provision there at all.
Senator JACKSON. I think you will need a State bureau of mines.

Delegate BARTLETT. We have a Territorial one now which can be readily expanded; yes.

Senator JACKSON. I understand, but the Federal Bureau of Mines under the Department of the Interior may have facilities that should be turned over.

Senator CORDON. It would be debatable whether they should be, Senator Jackson. For instance, in your own State we have a laboratory of the Bureau of Mines which is very valuable.

Senator JACKSON. I agree. I am not talking now, Senator Cordon, of turning over to the State facilities which of necessity must be a part of the continuing program on the part of the Federal Bureau of Mines. I am thinking of facilities that would of necessity fit into State administration.

Senator CORDON. We can inquire into that.
Senator JACKSON. Under the present law I believe the Bureau of
Mines has exclusive jurisdiction over the administration of the mines
in the Territory.

Mr. SLAUGHTER. No.
Senator JACKSON. Does the Territory have concurrent jurisdiction?

Senator CORDON. Is it not a fact now, Delegate Bartlett, that lumber used for building in Alaska is imported from elsewhere?

Delegate BARTLETT. To a very large extent and to a certain extent needlessly. We are going through that right now on account of the Columbia Lumber Co. which has three different mills in Alaska. The bid system is set up in such a way that they never get the word until about a week before the bid opening and they just cannot make a tender. They have one big mill at Whittier, which is right close to the main defense installation at Anchorage.

Senator CORDON. Where do the logs for that mill come from! Where are they cut!

Delegate BARTLETT. For the Whittier mill they are cut around in Prince William Sound.

Senator CORDON. Around the city of Whittier, then!
Delegate BARTLETT. No; some little distance from Whittier.

Senator CORDON. There is in that area a national forest which would appear on this map.

Mr. COULTER. This is Prince William Sound, this is Chugach National Forest, and this is the Gulf of Alaska [indicating].

Delegate BARTLETT. Whittier is about right here [indicating).

Senator CORDON. There is then commercially usable timber in that national forest.

Delegate BARTLETT. Oh, yes, not of the quality, or the amount that is to be found in the more southerly forests, but lots of it; yes.

Senator CORDON. It is usable for construction.
Delegate BARTLETT. Positively.
Senator CORDON. For the heavier construction timber.
Delegate BARTLETT. Yes.
Senator JACKSON. Saw lumber. It is good for saw lumber,
Delegate BARTLETT, Oh, yes.

Senator CORDON. I shall look forward with interest to hearing from Governor Heintzleman on this problem.

Senator SMATHERS. Mr. Chairman, before we conclude, let me say that, as the chairman knows, I am not going to be in favor, official passage, of either Alaska or Hawaii. However, I am happy to sit on this subcommittee and to the best of my ability help the chairman and the other members of the committee report à sensible, practicable bill which, if it is passed, will help Alaska become a fine State in the Union. My interest in Alaska is very sincere in trying to help produce a good bill.

Senator CORDON. The chairman is convinced of it and as far as the chairman is concerned the Senator need not have made the statement.

Senator SMATHERS. I will do what I can to get a good bill for what will be the new State of Alaska.

Senator CORDON. The Senator suggests if he gets a good bill he will vote against it, which is entirely his business and his judgment. He is wholly sincere in it, and he has been more than frank about it. It is noon.

At least we have had a chance to look a little bit at our problem, and we will recess until 10 o'clock in the morning at which time we will have the park people and whoever is needed, please, at a higher level of policy.

Mr. FRENCH. If Governor Heintzleman is available, you want him? Senator CORDON. If he is available, and please try to determine when that will be, and Delegate Bartlett will be here, please.

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, the committee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m., Thursday, January 21, 1954.)

ALASKA STATEHOOD

THURSDAY, JANUARY 21, 1954

UNITED STATES SENATE,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRITORIES AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,
OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,

Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 10:15 a. m., pursuant to recess, in the committee room, 224 Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C., Senator Guy Cordon (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Senators Guy Cordon, Oregon (presiding); Clinton P. Anderson, New Mexico; George A. Smathers, Florida; and Henry M. Jackson, Washington.

Present also : E. L. Bartlett, Delegate from Alaska, House of Representatives.

Present also: N. D. McSherry, assistant chief clerk; and Stewart Franch, professional staff member.

Present also: Elmer_F. Bennett, legislative counsel and assistant solicitor, and Herbert J. Slaughter, Chief, Reference Division, Office of Legislative Counsel, Department of the Interior.

Senator CORDON. The committee will be in order.

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

NATIONAL PARK SERVICE

STATEMENTS OF CONRAD WIRTH, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL PARK

SERVICE; BEN H. THOMPSON, CHIEF, RECREATION PLANNING DIVISION OF NATIONAL PARK SERVICE; ANTHONY T. LAUSI, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF TERRITORIES; AND ROBERT COOTE, STAFF ASSISTANT, TECHNICAL REVIEW STAFF Senator CORDON. Gentlemen, the purpose of calling representatives of the Department and the national parks and national monuments administrative section of the Department was to get for the committee information as to the present value of the reserved areas for the uses and purposes for which they were reserved; and if there be some portions less than the whole of each of the reservations which ought still to be held as parks or monuments, information as to that portion and suggestions with respect to methods of description, having the thought in mind that this committee feels that it must recommend to the Congress a more generous cession of land in volume and in class than any that has been heretofore considered, as a financial backlog, an economic asset to the State as a State.

to come up

Yesterday's discussions indicated that there were vast withdrawals for various purposes; that some of those were for national monument and national park purposes.

You were not called up here because it was felt that yours were more outrageous or illogical or inexcusable than the others, but simply because it was easier to get you here this morning. We expect to hear from the Forest Service. We were waiting until the Governor of Alaska, who probably is the best advised man in that field, could be here for that purpose. Then we expect to call the Bureau of Land Management.

Calling you today was more a matter of convenience to the committee than anything else, Mr. Wirth. Mr. WIRTH. Senator, I will say this: It is always a pleasure for us

here and tell our story, because we feel we have the best story in Government as to good land use. If you wish, I would like to take each area and give you a picture of what it consists of and how we propose to use it, and why it was established.

Senator CORDON. The chairman would prefer that procedure to any other. Identify them, one after another.

Mr. WIRTH. All right, sir.

Senator CORDON. And give us your best conclusions; and, of course, you will be subject, perhaps, to a few idle questions.

At this time, I will place in the record, without objection, a memorandum from the Assistant Secretary of the Interior Orme Lewis, dated May 18, 1953, on the subject matter of review of land withdrawals in Alaska. (The memorandum referred to follows:)

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR,

OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY,

Washington, D. O., May 18, 1953. Memorandum. To: Heads of bureaus and offices. From: Secretary of the Interior. Subject: Review of land withdrawals in Alaska.

It is my desire to move as rapidly as possible in the current review of land withdrawals in Alaska and to reduce or revoke withdrawals, especially those made for the benefit of the Department, whenever it is found that the withdrawals are not required for some essential purpose.

Each bureau and office will make a critical analysis of all withdrawals in Alaska made in its behalf and take timely action to reduce such withdrawals to a necessary minimum or eliminate, entirely, unnecessary withdrawals.

ORME LEWIS,

Assistant Secretary of the Interior. Approved : May 18, 1953.

DOUGLAS McKay,

Secretary of the Intérior. Mr. WIRTH. I might say in starting that we are at the present time making a complete land management study of all the areas of the national park system to determine whether an attempt to try to adjust the boundary lines was necessary, or there might be better economic use outside and there might be some adjustment in lines to improve the management of the park, even though it might require a little addition.

Senator CORDON. Mr. Wirth, is that order inclusive of all national parks and monuments, however situated, and not limited to Alaska ?

Mr. WIRTH. That is correct.

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