Mr. GROVER. Yes. Probably more for irrigation than industrial supply. But in southern California the interest also relates questions of municipal and industrial use and of flood control. In Arizona the information would be largely used in connection with irrigation and power. Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do you supply any of that information to private corporations that supply municipalities with water? Mr. GROVER. Only as it is made available to the public. That is, we do not furnish it to private corporations ahead of the general public. Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do they have the privilege of getting the information that you have on file? Mr. GROVER. Yes. Just as anyone else has it, but no more. Mr. GROVER. It is open to the public. And it is open to the public in generaly currently, because of the demand for current information for use in problems relating to the development of the rivers or to utilization for many purposes, or to control floods. It is necessary to make the information available currently. That is generally understood, and we have many demands for current information with respect to stages of rivers, quantities of water that flow in the rivers in times of drought and in times of flood. All records related to both surface streams and underground waters collected by the Geological Survey, are of course finally published in the regular series Water Supply papers. Mr. FITZPATRICK. It is very important just now in our American life to make studies of those things. Mr. GROVER. It is very important, and the demands for cooperation are therefore very much heavier than they have been before. And as a result of that, the amount provided by Congress this year and the amount suggested by the Budget for next year, as shown in the justification presented by Mr. Mendenhall, are not sufficient to meet on a dollar-for-dollar basis the cooperation that is offered in an effort by States to obtain information needed currently in connection with pressing problems related to use, control, and administration of water. COOPERATION WITH SOIL CONSERVATION AND OTHER FEDERAL AGENCIES 'Mr. LEAVY. There are now particularly the soil conservation coming into the picture, and crop control, soil fertilization, erosion by water, and numerous new Government agencies that are interested in this subject. Is there any overlapping between their activities and yours, or does your service supply them with their information? Mr. GROVER. We cooperate with them and supply them with information. They may make additional detail surveys of their own, but they will be supplemental to the work that we are doing. There is no overlapping. Mr. LEAVY. To be concrete, in the Tennessee Valley, for instance, that Authority might want to ascertain the annual run-off in that watershed. Does your service furnish them with information on that? Mr. GROVER. Yes. We cooperate very heavily with the Tennessee Valley Authority; and they furnish us money in addition to the money that is appropriated to us. Mr. LEAVY. That is something that I was just going to ask you. Do they match you? Are they compelled to match you? Mr. GROVER. No. They do not match us. They give us the full amount that we spend for the work that they want us to do. Mr. LEAVY. But in the Colorado River drainage and Boulder Dam, you carry on studies there and work? Mr. GROVER. We carry on studies there, and that is paid for directly by the moneys appropriated to us by Congress. Mr. LEAVY. And that is made available to the Reclamation Service? Mr. GROVER. Yes, sir. Mr. LEAVY. Do you go into the question of sanitation at all? Mr. GROVER. No, we do not. That gets into the field of the Public Health Service. We do not go into the problems of sanitation. However, our records are widely used in connection with problems related to pollution by municipalities and industries. Mr. LEAVY. That is all. I appreciate the tremendous significance of your work. Mr. FITZPATRICK. In addition to this $800,000 that you estimate to be spent here, you also spend $600,000, which makes a total of $1,400,000? Mr. GROVER. Yes. And then in addition we have other moneys furnished by Federal organizations of various kinds, as shown in the justification offered by Mr. Mendenhall. The total that we are spending this year is about $1,900,000 of moneys from all sources. Mr. FITZPATRICK. Have you any questions, Mr. Chairman? Mr. SCRUGHAM. No. CLASSIFICATION OF LANDS Mr. FITZPATRICK. We will go over to the item on classification of lands on page 325 of the bill. It reads as follows: Classification of lands: For the examination and classification of lands with respect to mineral character and water resources as required by the public-land laws and for related administrative operations; for the preparation and publication of mineral-land classification and water-resources maps and reports; for engineering supervision of power permits and grants under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior; and for performance of work of the Federal Power Commission, $100,000, of which amount not to exceed $70,000 may be expended for personal services in the District of Columbia; Dr. MENDENHALL. The justification for this item is as follows: In 1879 Congress delegated to the newly formed Geological Survey the classification of the public lands and examination of the geologic structure, mineral resources, and products of the national domain. Subsequent legislation has had the result of defining the present work of the Survey in public-land classification as determining the location, quantity, quality, and workability of mineral resources and the location, quantity, quality, and best methods of utilization of the water resources of the lands of the United States. It is essentially a job of taking inventory as a basis for securing use of vast natural resources in the best interests of all the people of the Nation. The related duties of publishing classification maps and reports, of supervising operation of water powers on the public lands developed by private parties and corporations, and of furnishing information and advice to the Federal agencies that manage or supervise the exploitation of mineral and water resources of the public lands are also performed under the auspices of the appropriation for classification. Under present policies, when the 16 million acres in unperfected entries are finally adjudicated and outstanding grants to States and railroads are staisfied, title to little of the remaining public land will pass into private ownership. The land will be devoted to public use, as in the case of national parks and monuments, or rights to its use under supervision will be granted to private citizens, associations or corporations as in the case of lands valuable for water resources or for minerals to which leasing laws are applicable. Classification has developed a changing aspect but has become even more essential to wise administration and use of the public lands and their resources. How is the work progressing? What has been accomplished? to be done? Should it be speeded up or slowed down? What remains Of about 25,000 miles of important streams of the public domain more than 21,000 miles have been surveyed in sufficient detail to permit general plans of development to be made. Survey of the remainder, detailed examination of important dam sites to determine their feasibility, review of more than 6 million acres in water-power reserves, about half finished, formulation and publication of plans of development with attendant summary of information, and continuation of advisory and supervisory duties are the remaining tasks relating to water resources to be performed under the appropriation item for classification of lands. The estimate for 1938 provides for continuation without expansion of the advisory and supervisory functions and for the expenditure of about $17,000 in the field work of stream surveys and dam-site examinations. At the rate permitted with such expenditure it will take 35 years or more to complete the normal field work precedent to classification as to water resources. A speeding up of the work is indicated as highly desirable. About 200 billion tons of coal are estimated to underlie lands of the United States. Two-thirds of the coal land has been examined in sufficient detail to warrant classification as valuable for its coal content, but little is known as to the workability in detail of the coal measures that it contains. About 27 million acres withdrawn for classification as to coal await examination, together with about 20 million acres withdrawn for classification as to oil and gas, oil shale, phosphate, and potash. (See accompanying table no. 1, showing, by States, the outstanding mineral withdrawals.) Survey and examination of these lands is a task of years on which little progress has been made for a decade. About $10,000 is to be devoted to this task in 1937, and the estimate for 1938 contemtemplates a similar expenditure. Reasonably prudent management of the Federal estate would warrant an annual expenditure of $100,000 or more for this purpose until the major items of field work are completed. The estimate for 1938 also provides for continuation on a normal scale of the advisory functions of the Survey as to minerals, including the field work most necessary to the solution of immediate urgent questions relating to specific classification problems. As an illustration of the specific needs, the utilization of oil and gas fields including large areas of Federal lands, is cited. As of December 1, 1936, plans of unitization of 31 such fields had been consummated, 179 were in process of revision, and 53 were awaiting consideration. The area logically subject to unitization on the basis of stratigraphic and structural surveys must be determined for each such plan before intelligent action upon it can be taken. A detailed structural survey by Government forces is highly desirable in each case but is unavailable except in a very few cases. The best available information obtainable from all sources, reliable and unreliable, must be evaluated and used for what it is thought to be worth. Serious mistakes are inevitable if the Government continues to depend on outside sources for information on which rights to its mineral resources are granted. The surveys that are needed could be supplied for less than half a million dollars, but only one or two such surveys can be made under the estimate for 1938. Expansion of the program for such work would be in the public interest. The accompanying table (no. 2) of principal types and number of technical reports requested and rendered reflects the changing nature of the advisory work resultant from classification activities, agricultural cases reported in previous years having been excluded from this table because of the transfer of such work to the Division of Grazing. The withdrawal of lands from entry in aid of the Taylor Grazing Act has resulted in a reduction of the number of "Land Office cases" on which joint mineral and water reports have been requested and a reduction in the number of applications for classification and reclassification. A reduction in the number of mineral leasing law cases considered is attributable chiefly to the O'Mahoney-Greever Act of August 21, 1935, which changes the wildly speculative system of issuing oil and gas prospecting permits to a more business-like leasing system. The great number of unit-operation cases is in the nature of a peak load, though a considerable number of such cases will hereafter be a matter of regular business. On the whole, this phase of classification has been directed to more important cases and placed on a more adequate and effective basis. Further reduction in volume and cost subsequent to 1938 and possibly to some extent during 1938 is anticipated. Supervision of 172 power projects under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior and 145 under the Federal Power Commission has been much neglected and should receive more attention. The accompanying table (no. 3) of available funds and approximate expenditures for public-land classification shows the effect of transfer to the Grazing Division of the work of classification as to agricultural and grazing utility. Most noteworthy is the serious reduction, almost continuous, in funds that could be expended for field investigations as to mineral and power, and the almost complete cessation of such work in 1934, 1935, and 1936. Resumption on the scale of 1933, though with different distribution, was possible in 1937, but no further expansion of field activity is proposed for 1938. Only by such expansion can real progress be made in the fundamental activity of classifying the public lands. TABLE 1.-Mineral withdrawals outstanding Dec. 1, 1936, in acres TABLE 2.-Principal types and number of technical reports involving the natural resources of public lands requested and rendered by the Geological Survey in specified fiscal years ! Includes cases pending at beginning of year as follows: 804, July 1, 1934; 1,864, July 1, 1935; 2,976, July 1, 1936 * Included in joint mineral and water. TABLE 3.-Available funds and approximate expenditures by the Geological Survey for public-land classification, by fiscal years Includes all field expenses and the salaries of personnel with permanent field headquarters, and, in 1936, all grazing expenditures whether in Washington or in the field. 2 Chiefly personal services; includes field salaries of personnel with Washington headquarters, except that, in 1936, all grazing expenditures are excluded. Includes $15,000 transferred under sec. 317 of the Economy Act, of which $10,870 remained unexpended mainly by reason of changed accounting system under which obligations of 1933 were met by cash withdrawals in 1934. Authorized cash withdrawals, of which $4,220, distributed among the several items, was expended for work done in 1933. * Including transfers and funds for 5-percent salary restorations. Dr. MENDENHALL. If you will permit me, I would like to introduce Mr. Stabler, who is in charge of this work, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Herman Stabler, Chief of the Conservation Branch of the Geological Survey. Mr. FITZPATRICK. I notice that you are asking for $100,000 for 1938, and out of that $100,000 you are spending $70,000 for personal services in the District of Columbia. Mr. STABLER. That from my point of view is most unfortunate. The work of land classification involves two things: First, the securing of information in the field; and, second, the making of that information available to public land administrative agencies. It takes about $60,000 or $70,000 in the second of those two objectives of the appropriation. In other words, the General Land Office or the Office of the Secretary of the Interior is continually inquiring of us about some particular piece of land; and it takes about that much money to furnish the information. Any balance over that we can put into field work in obtaining new information. That is why I say it is unfortunate; because the balance remaining for field work is so small. We should have all the field information collected before this, but unfortunately we have not. Much field examination remains to be made and progress upon it is very, very slow. If it could once be completed a reduction in appropriation would be in order. Mr. FITZPATRICK. Have you gentlemen any questions? |