Nr. 10916. prison? If any scoundrel has dared to do this he shall be punished. I am inquiring into the case, but have not yet heard the result from the Porte." Gross britannien. 27. März1895. I replied that I thought His Majesty had misunderstood the Patriarch's statements. According to a report I had heard, he had divided his grievances under three heads:- || 1. Those concerning religious matters; || 2. Those connected with the ancient privileges of the Church; and || 3. The general condition and treatment of the Armenians. || His Beatitude had, no doubt, given the three cases mentioned by His Majesty as examples of the three classes of grievances, but did not, I felt sure, intend them to be taken as an exhaustive list. The indignation aroused in England by recent events was, I continued, strong and sincere. The English people felt they could no longer share the responsibility for such a state of things, and Her Majesty's Government would. be obliged to insist on the introduction of reforms which would secure a better administration, and protect the Armenians from the Kurds. || His Majesty replied that the laws promulgated by his uncle and grandfather were amply sufficient to insure good government, if properly executed. He proposed, however, to improve the existing administration in three ways: Firstly, by increasing the number of gendarmes or soldiers in places where Kurds and Armenians were in conflict; and, secondly, by sending better men as Judges. Formerly, few Turks went abroad to study, and in Turkey the had hitherto had no opportunity of acquiring a proper judicial training. Such training was, however, now provided in the schools he had established. He added. that he feared the indolence of his officials was responsible for much maladministration. In Europe he had heard the Courts sometimes sat till late at night, whereas Turkish Judges were always anxious to leave early. He would, however, see to this. Thirdly, he proposed to introduce a certain number of Armenian functionaries into the public service in some parts of the Empire, but the execution of this reform must be gradual, and depend on the good behaviour of the Armenians themselves. Under these circumstances, there would be no necessity to demand reforms of the Porte. || I replied that we considered in England that no class was likely to obtain the treatment to which it was entitled unless it had some voice in the direction of affairs. For this reason we had gradually extended the suffrage in England, and we felt that in Turkey the Armenians would never be justly treated until they were admitted to a larger share in the Administration. I accordingly ventured to represent to His Majesty that they ought to receive appointments in all branches of the Administration in proportion to their numbers. || The Sultan said that this was already the case. There were Armenian Mudirs and Kaïmakams, Armenians in the police-in fact, they had more than their proper share in the Administration. He had had more than one Christian Minister for Foreign Affairs; his Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs was an Armenian. Every day in his Palace he saw forty or fifty Armenian employés. He offered Gross to give a statement showing the number of Armenians in the public service. || Nr. 10916. I said I feared the practice in the provinces did not agree with theory, and britannien. that the number of Armenian officials was small. Unless guarantees were 27. März1895. given for the execution of reforms, I could hold out no hope that Her Majesty's Government would be satisfied. || His Majesty said that after Baïram he intended to appoint a Commission to inquire into the grievances of the Armenians, and consider what reforms were necessary. I explained to His Majesty that my object in speaking so plainly with him had been to fulfil the duty of a Representative of a friendly Power, and that my only desire was to promote the welfare of his Empire. || His Majesty thanked me, and said he had taken my advice about the Sasun Commission, although its departure had been delayed in order to choose good men. But he again urged me to tell your Lordship that the question should be treated with greater moderation, and an attempt made to restrain the violent attacks of the press. What had already occurred was a source of grief to His Majesty, and a continuation of such a policy would inevitably alienate the sympathy of Turkey. As long as the Armenians, encouraged as they were by England, maintained their present attitude, it would be impossible to give them any share in the Administration. Before that could be done, they must behave properly || His Majesty then thanked me again for what I had said, and asked me to reflect on what had passed between us. He would do the same, and, after Baïram, intended to have a further long conversation with me. Philip Currie. Nr. 10917. GROSSBRITANNIEN. - Derselbe an Denselben. Unterredung mit dem Grossvezier über die armenischen Gefangenen und die Sassunkommission. Constantinople, March 28, 1895. (Received April 1.) Gross My Lord, I Called on the Grand Vizier on the afternoon of the 21st, Nr. 10917. and drew his Highness' attention to the bad effect produced in England by britannien. the wholesale arrests of Armenians, which for some time past have been usual, 28. März 1895. I stated it was high time the Turkish Government should understand the danger of the situation, and seriously endeavour to stem the tide of popular opinion in England and Europe generally, where the Porte had hardly a friend left. His Highness said he quite understood the danger of the situation, and asked what could be done to satisfy the British public. || I handed him a translation of parts of your Lordship's despatch of the 16th March, and urged upon him the necessity of liberating the Armenians now in prison without delay, and of ceasing to make further wholesale arrests. He replied. that the Sultan had already issued an Iradé ordering that all Armenian Staatsarchiv LVIII. 6 Gross Nr. 10917. ecclesiastics now under sentence should be brought to Constantinople with the britannien. papers relating to their cases, and that all who were not found guilty of 23. März1895. murder or other nonpolitical crimes should be set at liberty. They would have to take the oath of allegiance, and it would be intimated that they should not be appointed to important posts. The Iradé was dated the 14th March, and had already been communicated to the Minister of Public Worship and Justice. He added that he was taking steps to advise the Sultan to grant a general amnesty to all Armenian political offenders, and had some hopes of success. || I replied that justice rather than clemency was required, and suggested that a Commission should, without delay, visit all the prisons, and be given full powers to discharge all persons detained on frivolous charges or on insufficient evidence. || The Grand Vizier said he preferred his own plan because immediate action was necessary, whereas the measure I suggested would involve months of delay. || His Highness then said he could. not understand how England could continue to vilify Turkey, her traditional friend and ally. I reminded him I had warned the Porte as early as November last of the tremendous effect which the Sasun occurrences would have in England, and had advised that immediate measures should be taken to reassure public opinion. || His Highness replied that my advice had been followed, and the Commission sent, but the attacks in the press still continued, and Her Majesty's Government were dealing very hardly with the Porte. || I replied we could do nothing unless Turkey would help herself: "Aide-toi et Dieu t'aidera." He admitted this, but again begged I would endeavour to prevent the growth of hostile feeling in England. || We then spoke of the Sasun Commission, and his Highness asked if I was convinced that massacres had taken place. I said that, without wishing to prejudice the finding of the Commission, I could feel little doubt that helpless and unarmed Armenians had been killed in cold blood by Turkish soldiers. His Highness seemed much disconcerted by this answer, and inquired if the Commission was working well. I replied that the Turkish members seem to raise unnecessary delays and obstacles, and that it would be better if the Commission would listen to the suggestions of the Delegates with regard to witnesses and other matters. The object of the inquiry was rather to find out whether massacres had taken place, and, if so, who was responsible for them, than to ascertain whether there had been Armenian agitators, such as Murad, at Talori and Sasun. || The Grand Vizier then asked me to recall, in accordance with the prohibition issued by the Ottoman Government, two correspondents who were now telegraphing false news from Erzeroum. I replied that I had never undertaken to enforce that ill-advised prohibition, and had no power to recall the gentlemen in question. Philip Currie. Nr. 10918. GROSSBRITANNIEN. Der Botschafter in Petersburg an den Minister des Auswärtigen. Unterredung mit Fürst Lobanoff. Schwierigkeit Reformen in Armenien einzuführen. St. Petersburgh, March 28, 1895. (Received April 1.) Gross My Lord, I Called upon Prince Lobanoff this afternoon, and read to Nr. 10918. him Sir Philip Currie's telegrams forwarded to me by your Lordship. || Prince britannien. Lobanoff followed them with interest, and thanked me for communicating 28.März1895. them to him. He was awaiting a report from the Russian Ambassador at Constantinople, who had, as his Excellency had informed me on a previous occasion, reported that he was in consultation with his English and French colleagues as to the best method of introducing reforms into Armenia. His Excellency was anxious to learn the proposals which the Ambassadors would make to settle this very difficult question. He believed that he was right in stating that there were but three districts in Asia Minor where the Armenians formed the majority of the population, viz., Bitlis, Angora, and Alexandretta. But these places were far apart, and could scarcely be united in one province. Armenians were scattered throughout the country, indeed, throughout the world, and there was no one locality which could be described as Armenia. || In the case of the Lebanon, it had been found possible to delimitate a province and to appoint a Christian Governor, but the analogy did not apply in the case of the Armenians, and he did not at present see how it would be possible to introduce reforms which would satisfy the Armenians, unless, indeed, we were prepared to undertake the reform of the administration of the whole of Turkey in Asia. The Hatti-Humayoun of 1856, and more especially the Treaty of Berlin, gave the Powers the right to insist on reforms, but the difficulty was to give practical shape to these reforms, and he was, therefore, very much interested to know the result of the consultation of the Ambassadors at Constantinople on the subject. Frank C. Lascelles. Nr. 10919. GROSSBRITANNIEN. Botschafter in Konstantinopel Constantinople, April 1, 1895, 7.35 p.m. (Received April 1.) Gross Telegraphic. || Mr. Block received yesterday a letter from Tahsin Bey, Nr. 10919. the Sultan's Chief Secretary, asking him to come and see him at the Palace. britannien. On his repairing thither Tahsin Bey read him the following communication 1. Apr. 1895. from the Sultan:- "The British Ambassador, at his audience on the 21st March, handed to His Imperial Majesty an extract of a despatch from Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. After careful perusal, His Majesty had come to the conclusion that certain of the state britannien. Nr. 10919. ments contained in this extract were exaggerated and deeply to be regretted. Gross- By order of the Sultan a list of Armenian prisoners had been drawn up at 1. Apr. 1995. the Porte, but, unfortunately, the names of persons who had already been pardoned by His Majesty figured on this list, as well as the names of some ordinary criminals. A Commission had therefore been appointed by the Sultan to draw up a complete and impartial list of all Armenians who are at present in prison for political offences. This Commission consists of the Ministers of Justice, Police, and the Interior, under the presidency of the former. || "The Sultan is every day sending verbal and written messages pressing for the list, which he expects will be ready very shortly. "At his last audience, the Sultan had mentioned to the Ambassador his intention of appointing a Commission of Inquiry into the Armenian question after Baïram. The President has now been appointed" (Tahsin Bey did not give Mr. Block his name), "and the Sultan was at present occupied in choosing the other members of the Commission. They would inquire into the alleged grievances of the Armenians, and would suggest remediary measures, as far as possible without any alteration of existing laws and regulations. || "Should it, however, be found that the existing laws do not suffice, they will suggest such modifications as may be necessary. || "His Majesty proposes to grant the Ambassador another audience after the Selamlik on Friday, when they will be able to resume their conversation on the Armenian question. || "His Majesty, in the full conviction that his Excellency is well disposed both towards himself personally and towards his country, trusts that his Excellency will redouble his efforts to assist him. He is convinced that the Ambassador will approve of the measures he is taking, and that they will produce an excellent effect in England both on the Government and on the general public." Tahsin Bey then said, as if on his own account, that the attitude I had adopted had been a source of considerable annoyance and distress to the Sultan. The interests of Turkey and England were identical, and it was most important that they should remain firm allies. He knew that I entertained friendly sentiments towards the Sultan, and he hoped that at my next audience I would give His Majesty some proof of this feeling. Nr. 10920. britannien. Nr. 10920. GROSSBRITANNIEN. - Derselbe an Denselben. Unterredung mit dem Sultan, der sich über den Ton der britischen Presse beschwert. Pera, April 10, 1895. (Received April 22.) My Lord, I had the honour to be received in private audience by His Gross- Imperial Majesty the Sultan after the ceremony of the Selamlik on Friday 10. Apr. 1895. last, the 5th instant. His Majesty plunged at once in medias res and said that after reflection on our conversation of the 21st ultimo (reported in my despatch of the 27th March) he had appointed Turkhan Pasha, some time |