Mr. BELL could not understand what was meant by the words State officers. It might receive different constructions by different persons, and in his opinion it was in direct contravention of a provision already adopted. If his memory served, the Convention had agreed to allow the Governor the appointment of a Secretary of the Commonwealth. Then was he not to be considered a State officer. If therefore the committee agree to this part of the report we will have contradictory provisions in the Constitution. In relation to the amendment proposed by the gentleman from the county of Philadelphia, (Mr. Brown,) if it was adopted, it would be forestalling the opinion of the Convention in relation to the judiciary, before it came up for discussion. It seemed to be the general opinion in the Convention, that the appointment of judges of courts, was to be vested in the Governor; but the object of the gentleman from the county appeared, at this premature stage, to be to procure an expression of opinion upon a part of the report, that the Governor was not to have this power of appointment, but that it was to be vested in the Legislature. The object seemed to be to ask us to vote and commit ourselves on this great question, before it was fully and fairly discussed. He would ask gentlemen, when it was expected that we would have a lengthy and able argument on the subject of the judiciary, whether they were now prepared to give their votes and settle this great leading question? He was not prepared to do it, and he would therefore vote first against the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Philadelphia county, and then against the whole section?

Mr. BROWN's amendment was then disagreed to; and the report of the committee as contained in the eighth section was rejected.

So much of the report of the committee as was contained in the ninth section, as follows, was taken up:

"SECT. 9. Clerks of the County Courts, Surveyors, Recorders of Deeds, Registers of Wills, and Sheriffs, shall keep their offices in the county town of the county in which they respectively shall be officers." Mr. DARLINGTON moved to strike out the words "County Surveyors." Mr. RUSSELL hoped that this amendment might not be agreed to. In the county he represented they had suffered very great inconvenience on account of the office of County Surveyor not being in the county town. In the trial of cases of ejectment it frequently becomes necessary and is very important that reference should be had to papers in the office of the Deputy Surveyor, and in many instances it becomes necessary to go some fifteen or twenty miles for the purpose of obtaining these papers. Courts, and all persons connected with the transaction of business relating to land suits, find the inconvenience of these offices being kept in any other place than the county seat. So inconvenient has it become in many counties that the Legislature has provided that it shall be kept in the county seats of those counties, and unless the gentleman could show some good reason why this provision should be stricken out of the section, he hoped it would not now be dispensed with. He thought it important that this, as well as all other offices connected with the county business, should be kept in the county town.

Mr. DARLINGTON could see no reason why this office should be kept in

the officer had very little to do. In Chester county it was far more important that the County Surveyor should reside in a remote extremity of the county, than in the county town, as his duty lay almost entirely in distant sections of the county. It was far more important that he should be in the neighborhood of the people, than in the neighborhood of the courts. In many of the counties, this officer was seldom required to be in attendance at courts; certainly, in his experience, he had never known any occasion for the County Surveyor residing in the county town. If, however, it was necessary in any of the counties, that the County Surveyor should reside in the county town, it could easily be provided for by law. This was the proper course of providing for these cases. There were but very few counties in which it would be necessary to have this provision made, and why insert in the Constitution a clause making it imperative in all counties, no matter how inconvenient it may be to the people of those counties. For these reasons he had moved to strike out this provision and he hoped the motion might prevail.

Mr. MERRILL said if it went no farther than to inconvenience the parties in suits, he would not care so much about it, but he knew, and every lawyer knew, that great injustice was frequently done to persons litigating, from the want of access to the County Surveyors' offices; and in many of these cases it was impossible to obtain any aid from the court. Where the County Surveyor's office is kept at a distance from the seat of justice, one party may produce papers which will have a very important bearing in their favor, but which could easily be set aside by other papers in the office. If, however, access cannot be had to these papers, injustice is done. He himself had known of persons having to travel a whole night for the purpose of obtaining testimony from these offices to sustain their cause in court. If, then, these papers are important in court, and it had been said by the Supreme Court of the State, that almost the sweepings of a Deputy Surveyor's office was evidence in court, the office of the Surveyor ought to be where it could be easy of access. It may be observed that it would be inconvenient for the Deputy Surveyor to reside in the county town. It was not necessary, however, that he should reside there, but merely that he should have a room or an office there, where the papers should be kept, so that they might readily be obtained when they were wanted in court. It very frequently happens that these papers are the turning point in occasioning justice or injustice to be done. A person may come to court to carry on his trial, and he may be surprised at the production of papers from the Deputy Surveyor's office, which he had no idea of, and which he may not be able to rebut because of the distance of the of fice from the seat of justice. It appeared to him to be of the utmost importance that this office should be in the county town, and if it was inconvenient to the County Surveyor to keep it there, all he had to say to it was, that his convenience ought to yield to that of the public convenience. It might be, that it would be unnecessary in some of the small counties, but as a general rule it was important to the public, and more important to the parties litigating and to the court before which the trials. were to be had.

Mr. WOODWARD said that the question was not whether the office of Deputy Surveyor should be kept in the county town, but it was whether we should introduce a provision in the Constitution on this subject. It

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is perfectly practicable for the Legislature to provide, in every county where it is proper that the office of Deputy Surveyor should be kept in the county seat, that it should be kept there, but he could not see the necessity of having a constitutional provision that these offices should be kept in every county town. He could see no necessity for it; it might operate to make it inconvenient to many of the people of the counties, and he was opposed to having any constitutional provision on the subject. He should therefore vote against the amendment, and leave the article of the Constitution to stand precisely as it is. The committee had made another alteration, the reason for which he could not precisely understand, and unless some good reason could be given for the change, he hoped it would not prevail. In the third section of this article in the old Constitution, the Governor has the power of dispensing with the keeping of county offices in the county towns in certain cases. This was dispensed with in the proposed amendment. Now he thought the better way would be to restore the latter part of the third section of the old Constitution, and leave the other matter to the future action of the Legislature, and let them provide for the keeping of the office of County Surveyor in the county towns of those counties in which it is necessary; and where no necessity for it exists, let these officers keep their offices where they please.

Mr. READ would suggest another reason which he had not heard urged, in favor of keeping these offices at the county town. These papers it is well known are of very great importance in case of land claims; and if they are kept in the county towns, they will in almost every case be kept in fire proof buildings, and be safe; whereas, if they were not kept at the county seat, they would be subject to destruction by being exposed. In regard to the clause in the third section alluded to by the gentleman from Luzerne, (Mr. Woodward,) he would say that it was entirely unnecessary, as it had always been inoperative, no case ever having occurred to require the Governor to exercise it. It was a matter therefore of not the least importance, and he would just as soon have it inserted as omitted, as he had no doubt it would remain a dead letter in the instrument.

Mr. SERGEANT said that the argument, so far as he had heard it, in favor of having the Deputy Surveyor's office in the county seat, was confined to a single point; that is, that gentlemen have experienced inconvenience in cases where evidence happened to be wanted in trials of causes in courts. It has been said that sometimes it happens that papers are produced in court as evidence, which might be counteracted by other papers which could be produced from the clerk's office, if they could be obtained; and it was said by one gentleman that parties in these trials were sometimes surprised when this evidence was produced. In the first place he thought this thing was magnified, because in all trials of these kinds every thing is examined which can throw light on the subject, before the trial comes on. If there is any thing in a Surveyor's office which had any bearing upon the case, a counsel would be negligent of his duty if he had not looked into it. He was not therefore likely to be surprised. Well, supposing that you do require the Surveyor to keep his office in the county town for the convenience of the courts and the parties who have trials before them, do you not subject the community to

venience, you may subject the whole community to a constant inconvenience. He thought it therefore better to leave the whole of these arrangements to be made by the Legislature. As to the matter of fire proofs, he might to be sure have them, but none were provided for him, and if they were yet to be provided for, they could as well be provided at other places as at the county towns. He did not look upon these papers as so important as the public records. The Deputy Surveyor makes a return to the Surveyor General's office, and these returns are regularly recorded, and can be obtained at any time. It is sometimes however desirable to see the field notes and other papers, which come in as a mere matter of evidence; but they are not to be classed amongst the records. It appeared to him however, that it was going entirely too much into details to be noting all these matters in the fundamental law. Inasmuch as it was an office which was required to be exercised all over the counties, and in some counties only to be exercised in particular districts in the county, he thought it ought to be left to the Legislature to use such discretion in relation to it as they might think proper. He hoped, therefore, that the amendment might not be adopted.

Mr. CLARKE, of Indiana, suggested that if the words "County Survey. ors," were stricken out, it would be better to insert after the word "Sher. iffs," the words-" and such other officers as may be required by law.",

Mr. RUSSELL said that this question was looked upon as though it was requiring the Surveyor himself to reside in the county town. This was not the case. The amendment did not require that the County Surveyor should reside in the county town, but merely that he should keep an office there. He could not see what objection could be made to this. It might be that a few counties would not be benefited by it, but in a large number it would be a very great convenience, and he thought therefore it ought to be granted, as it would not be any inconvenience to the other counties.

Mr. BONHAM said this provision would be altogether useless in the county he in part had the honor to represent. The practice in his county was for the Deputy Surveyor to advertise a day when he would meet those persons having business with him. His business was so very limited that it would be utterly useless to require him to keep a room in the county town, or to reside there. His business would not justify the expense, and why compel him to keep an office there? He therefore thought that the amendment reported by the committee ought to be dispensed with, and let the Constitution stand as it is in this particular.

Mr. PORTER, of Northampton, would suggest another reason why these words should be stricken out, It was that the Deputy Surveyor was not known to the Constitution at all, and was not named in any other part of the instrument, except this. He apprehended that it would be wrong to make provision in the Constitution where an office should be kept, when no such office was created by the Constitution. For this reason he should vote for striking out the words.

Mr. BELL, of Chester, said that we could all understand the reason why the committee inserted the provision requiring the Prothonotaries and Sheriffs to keep their offices in the county towns, whether the population was large or small. The reason was on account of these offices being necessarily connected with the courts of law in every town in the Com

that the Surveyor General had little or nothing to do with the administration of justice. In the county which he (Mr. B.) had the honor to represent, he had no recollection of a single instance in which that officer was called upon to appear in a particular cause. He was aware that titles were not so good in the Western counties as elsewhere, and hence the necessity of having recourse to these officers for proof. But why, he would ask, should the Constitution introduce a provision which should be made general throughout the State, requiring these officers to reside at the seat of justice when in all the Eastern counties, they were not required? Why not leave the matter to the Legislature, to act according as public convenience may require? There could be no difficulty. Why should we call upon the county of Bedford, of Allegheny, of Chester, of Bucks, or any other county, to do that which they might not deem necessary? Constitutional provisions ought to be general in their character, and such as are called for by the necessities of the people; while all details should be left to legislation. He wished that the amendment would be struck out.

Mr. MERRILL, of Union, saw no necessity for a constitutional provision on the subject. He did not think that any inconvenience would be felt if the office of County Surveyor were not kept in a county town. He would vote against the amendment, and also against the report of the committee.

The question was then taken on the amendment, and it was agreed to. Mr. CLARKE, of Indiana, moved to amend by strking out the word "and," before the word "Sheriffs," and inserting after the word "Sheriffs," the words following, viz: "and such other officers as may be required by law."

Mr. C. said he was not at all anxious as to whether it should be adopted or not. This amendment, however, had occurred to his mind, as calculated to meet the difficulty. If it should be lost, then the Legislature would have to exercise their power as they might think proper.

The question was then taken on the amendment, and it was negatived.

Mr. DARLINGTON moved to insert the word "Prothonotaries," before the word "Clerks," in the beginning of the section, striking out the word "county," where it occurs before the word " Courts," in the first line, and inserting in lieu thereof the word "several."

Mr. STEVENS, of Adams, would suggest whether this was not bringing us back to the old Constitution, with the single exception that the Governor may dispense with the county town. He could see nothing to be gained by this amendment. The old article, it seemed to him, provided every thing that could be desired. It would be better to negative the amendment, and leave the Constitution as it is.

The question being taken on the amendment, it was negatived.

The question was then taken on agreeing to the report of the committee, as amended, and it was decided in the negative.

Mr. BELL, of Chester, moved that the committee rise.

And a division being called for, there appeared-ayes 44, noes 31.