Miss TERRY. If I had known in the beginning

Senator WELKER. I am not impressed with anything I have heard up to now.

Miss TERRY. If I had known in the beginning that I could have produced a lawyer before I came down, I certainly would have done it. Senator WELKER. Why did you sign this statement? Did anybody force you to sign it?

Miss TERRY. I decline to answer.

Senator WELKER. You decline to answer. How is that going to incriminate you? You have told me about the force that was used upon you, and now you say that you decline to answer whether anv force was used upon you in getting this document signed. Was any force used on you while you were in the room with the investigators? Miss TERRY. No brutality.

Senator WELKER. Were you told that you had to answer a question a certain way?

Miss TERRY. I assumed the fact,
Senator WELKER. Ma'am?

Miss TERRY. I assumed that fact.

Senator WELKER. You assumed that you had to tell the truth. Nobody told you what to write in this statement, did they? Why do you hesitate? Can't you answer that question?

Miss TERRY. After I think the question over clearly, I will answer it.

Senator WELKER. Did anybody tell you and force you to put the answers in this query that you put in?

Miss TERRY. They didn't by force.

Senator WELKER. You did it of your own free will and accord. didn't you?

The CHAIRMAN. Will you answer that question?

Miss TERRY. What was the question?

Senator WELKER. The question was, You did it of your own free will and accord, did you not?

Miss TERRY. I decline to answer that question.

The CHAIRMAN. What is that answer?

Mr. BAUMAN. She declines to answer, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. You decline to answer on the ground that it would incriminate you to tell whether you were forced to reply?

Miss TERRY. I can't hear you.

Senator WELKER. I would suggest in fairness to you, Miss Witness, that you had better talk with your counsel about that last answer, because as I said to a witness just preceding you upon the stand, it looks very bad for you if this matter goes to court, and as far as I am personally concerned, I am not going to waste my time sitting here listening to evasive answers from one like you or anybody else who thinks we are up here just for a show. I think you had better talk to her, Mr. Counselor. That last answer will certainly get her in trouble.

Mr. O'CONNELL. May it please Your Honor, I don't want this girl to sit here and talk herself into more trouble than she is in now. I think she has a right to refuse to answer questions which, in her opinion or in my opinion, might tend to incriminate her. To answer one question, that brings on another. You don't know when it stops.

Senator WELKER. Mr. Counselor, you have practiced law for many years and you certainly ought to know the law with respect to the privilege of refusing to answer. You cannot refuse to answer every question that is propounded to you, as she has here.

Mr. O'CONNELL. She hasn't refused to answer every question. She has answered a good many questions.

Senator WELKER. If you will tell me why she refused to answer the question that the chairman ordered her to answer-apparently she has adopted the policy she is going to answer nothing.

Mr. O'CONNELL. I don't think that is quite true.

Senator WELKER. All right, then once again I will ask her, why does she refuse to testify whether or not force was used upon her in signing this document?

Mr. O'CONNELL. She answered that question, said there was no physical force.

Senator WELKER, She said she refused to answer that question, Mr. Counsel.

I

Mr. O'CONNELL. At one time she said there was no actual force. Senator WELKER. All right, I am not going to argue with you. will ask her again: Do you want to answer the question, was force used upon you when you signed this document that counsel has interrogated you about?

Miss TERRY. No physical force.

Senator WELKER. No physical force.

Counsel, do you want to proceed?

The CHAIRMAN. You have stated, in effect, that if you had not been hurried down here, you would have employed an attorney to represent you. Is it not a fact that you now have here with you counsel of your own selection?

Miss TERRY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair informs you that if you want additional attorneys, you will be given an opportunity to employ them. Do you want anyone else to represent you in this case?

Miss TERRY. No.

The CHAIRMAN. Then you are satisfied with the counsel you have? Miss TERRY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Your answer is that you are satisfied?

Miss TERRY. Yes.

Mr. BAUMAN. I have no further questions of this witness. Senator WELKER. Miss Terry, once again going back to the testimony about your trip down to the investigating quarters of committee counsel, you left the impression on the direct statement that you would not have gone had not force or duress been used upon you.

Now, from the time you met these investigators upon the day you gave the statement, was any force used upon you to either get you to go, make you continue the trip there, get out of the car going into the office of Mr. Bauman and making the statement that you have sworn to, as counsel has related to you? Now, if any force was used, I would like you to tell the committee what it was.

Miss TERRY. Just as I said before, there was no physical force, but they

Senator WELKER. Was there any mental force?

Miss TERRY. Yes; it was.

Senator WELKER. I assume that most people generally don't like to be called upon to testify in any kind of a proceeding, either civil or criminal, but that is a duty you owe to society. There wasn't any physical force?

Miss TERRY. Not physically. Senator WELKER. You stayed there. wanted to?

Miss TERRY. No; I couldn't.

Senator WELKER. You couldn't

You could go about as you

go about.

Did anybody ever sit you down if you would get up?

Miss TERRY. They didn't sit me down. They put me in a room by myself and closed the door. There was somebody sitting in front of the door.

Senator WELKER. You mean, to hold you in there?

Miss TERRY. I don't know what they was doing. I didn't open the door.

Senator WELKER. I am going to ask you a few questions. I am going to be quite frank with you. I am asking you these questions to ascertain whether or not you haven't been and are not now in contempt of this committee.

Have you ever been married.

Miss TERRY. No.

Sentaor WELKER. Do you live alone?
Miss TERRY. No.

Senator WELKER. Where do you live?

Miss TERRY. 1011 Euclid Street NW.

Senator WELKER. And that was the place where this numbers house at one time was operated?

Miss TERRY. I refuse to answer that question.

Senator WELKER. Did you name a person who operated a numbers racket that operated from your place of residence?

Miss TERRY. I decline to answer.

Senator WELKER. Why, then, did you give your statement upon the 17th day of December 1951? You gave a statement then, as you have admitted, I think, under oath. Why did you give that statement? Did it tend to incriminate you at that time?

Miss TERRY. Yes; it did.

Senator WELKER. Did you make any objection whatsoever to counsel, committee counsel, or the investigators in making this statement?

Miss TERRY. I didn't quite understand you.

Senator WELKER. Did you make any objections to any person, either Mr. Bauman, Mr. Solomon, or any of the staff in making this statement you have sworn to on the 17th of December 1951?

Did you object to signing this statement?

Miss TERRY. I didn't object to it.

Senator WELKER. I didn't hear your answer.

Miss TERRY. I did not object to it.

Senator WELKER. You did not object to it. You made it, then, freely

and voluntarily?

Miss TERRY. I was under a mental strain.

Senator WELKER. You were under a mental strain?

Miss TERRY. Yes; I was.

Senator WELKER. I shall now, Mr. Counsel and Mr. Chairman, offer in evidence the statement made by this witness on the 17th of December 1951, and expressly direct the attention of the chairman to the fact that it is an admission of this witness given under oath, and I shall recommend that a criminal prosecution be started by virtue of that written admission under oath

Mr. BAUMAN. May I introduce this in the record?

The CHAIRMAN. The executed questionnaire will be made a part of the record.

Mr. BAUMAN. Will you show that to the witness, please? Will you look at the last page of that statement, madam, Is that your signature that appears there?

Miss TERRY. Yes; it is.

Mr. BAUMAN. And it was your signature that you signed before a notary public whose name appears beneath it; is that correct? Miss TERRY. I beg your pardon?

Mr. BAUMAN. I say, the signature beneath yours is that of the notary public before whom you signed it; is that correct?

Miss TERRY. Yes.

Mr. BAUMAN. I offer that statement in evidence at this time.
Mr. SOLOMON. It will be marked "Exhibit No. 10."

(The document above referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 10," and appears in the appendix on p. 393. )

Mr. BAUMAN. Now, Miss Terry, on December 17, 1951, you say two investigators of this staff called upon you at your home; is that correct?

Miss TERRY. That is right.

Mr. BAUMAN. And they had forthwith supenas for you and your mother?

Miss TERRY. Yes.

Mr. BAUMAN. And they offered you transportation down to the offices of the committee; is that correct?

Miss TERRY. They took me.

Mr. BAUMAN. They took you against your will?

Miss TERRY. They had a subpena for me. I am not familiar with the law. I didn't know that I didn't have to go. Otherwise I wouldn't

have

gone.

Mr. BAUMAN. Did they force you to go?

Miss TERRY. They couldn't have forced me.

Mr. BAUMAN. You then came down with these men to my office; is that correct?

Miss TERRY. That's right.

Mr. BAUMAN. And I then questioned your mother before I questioned you; is that right?

Miss TERRY. Yes; in separate rooms.

Mr. BAUMAN. Yes, of course. While I was questioning your mother, I asked you to sit in another room; is that correct?

Miss TERRY. You didn't ask me anything.

Mr. BAUMAN. I said while I was questioning your mother you were seated in another room; is that right?

Miss TERRY. That's right.

Mr. BAUMAN. When I was through questioning your mother, I asked that you be brought into my office and I questioned you; is that correct?

Miss TERRY. That's right.

Mr. BAUMAN. Did you offer any objection at that time to answering any of these questions?

Miss TERRY. No.

Mr. BAUMAN. Did I in any way force you to make these answers? Miss TERRY. Not physically.

Mr. BAUMAN. Did I in any way force you, madam, to make these

answers?

Miss TERRY. As I said before, I was under a mental strain.

Mr. BAUMAN. These questions and answers were taken down by a stenographer on the subcommittee staff; is that right?

Miss TERRY. That's right.

Mr. BAUMAN. And you then waited until this statement, which has been exhibited to you, was typewritten; is that correct?

Miss TERRY. Under order I waited.

Mr. BAUMAN. Who ordered you?

Miss TERRY. You.

Mr. BAUMAN. I ordered you to stay there?

Miss TERRY. You told me to have a seat and wait.

Mr. BAUMAN. Did you ask to leave?

Miss TERRY. I asked you how long it would be.

Mr. BAUMAN. Did I tell you as soon as the statement was typewritten?

Miss TERRY. Yes.

Mr. BAUMAN. And when the statement was typewritten, you were taken by an investigator of the staff to a notary public where you signed this statement before the notary; is that right?

Miss TERRY. That's right.

Mr. BAUMAN. Was any more duress or force of any kind placed upon you than that?

Miss TERRY. Except that I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone.
Mr. BAUMAN. To whom would you have liked to talk?

Miss TERRY. To my mother.

Mr. BAUMAN. Your mother was at that time

Miss TERRY. In another room.

Mr. BAUMAN. In another room.

And just as I questioned

you

separately, I questioned her separately; isn't that right?

Miss TERRY. But even after you got through with the questioning, you put us in separate rooms.

Senator PASTORE. Did you ask to join your mother so that you could talk to her?

Miss TERRY. She started toward me. I didn't ask. She started toward me to come in.

Senator PASTORE. We are talking about you. Did you ask Mr. Bauman that you would like to talk to your mother?

Miss TERRY. No; I didn't ask him that.

Senator PASTORE. How was he supposed to know that you wanted to talk to your mother if you did not ask him?

Miss TERRY. Because we started in the room with one another and one of the investigators, or something, they brought me back and told me to sit in this room and for her to sit in another room.

Mr. BAUMAN. Let me ask you, Miss Terry, were you at any time treated with anything but complete courtesy by me or any member of the subcommittee staff?