Mr. BAUMAN. Is that the best answer you can give? Senator PASTORE. On that point, Major Barrett, if there was other income of any large amount, you would recall it, would you not? Mr. BARRETT. Well, Senator, my wife's father lived with us and, as I stated before, he was old, and my wife handled his money for him and did a lot of things for him and that is the best that I know about it. If something is called particularly to my attention, I can answer it. Mr. BAUMAN. In answer to question 58, which asks the total cost of clothing for you and your family, you say it was impossible to estimate other than to say it was very modest. Mr. BARRETT. That was the answer at that time. Mr. BAUMAN. What is the answer? Mr. BARRETT. I think I gave $150 a year and I think it amounts to $165. Mr. BAUMAN. What is the answer now? Mr. BARRETT. Around $165 a year for myself. Mr. BAUMAN. How much for your family, sir? Mr. BARRETT. I can't answer that for my wife, not to any large amount. Mr. BAUMAN. In answer to question 59 you say-that deals with medical, dental, and hospital expenses-you kept no records and it is impossible to estimate these costs other than to say they were modest, except in the year 1947 when you have set forth the amount. Mr. BARRETT. That was the answer. Mr. BAUMAN. Is that still your answer? Mr. BARRETT. No, sir. I have had trouble. Mr. BAUMAN. What hospital expenses have you had other than the cost of your own recent illness, Major? Mr. BARRETT. When do you— Mr. BAUMAN. The cut-off date on this was October of 1951, was it not? Mr. BARRETT. From when? Mr. BAUMAN. The question goes back to 1945. You have answered it with regard to 1947 and I would appreciate your answering it with regard to 1948, 1949, 1950, and 1951, if you are in a position to do so. Mr. BARRETT. I had quite a bit of dental work myself. Mr. BAUMAN. Will you tell us who performed that work? Mr. BARRETT. Dr. Molenof. Mr. BAUMAN. Will you tell us the total cost of it? Mr. BARRETT. I was born next door to him. I would say not more than $150. Mr. BAUMAN. Was that paid in cash or by check? Mr. BARRETT. It was paid when he visited my house. I know that my wife had been there. I met him over at my sister's and I paid him in cash over there what I owed him and I think that she asked him how much was hers and she paid him right there whatever the amount was. Mr. BAUMAN. Did I understand what she paid him was over and above the $150 you paid him? Mr. BARRETT. Yes. Mr. BAUMAN. What year was that, incidentally? Mr. BARRETT. I don't know. Then there was some other dentist I know she went to 'way back. I don't know his name and don't know what it cost. Mr. BAUMAN. Have you had any other medical expenses other than your illness of 1951, during the years 1948, 1949, 1950, and 1951? Mr. BARRETT. Yes, sir. Mr. BAUMAN. Can you tell us what they were in 1951 other than your recent illness? Mr. BARRETT. I was treated by Dr. Collins several times and I had X-rays taken. Senator PASTORE. Is it necessary for this man to reveal all his ailments? Mr. BAUMAN. Sir, it would not have been necessary for one minute if the questionnaire had been answered or if he will now take the questionnaire and answer those questions which have not been adequately answered before. Senator PASTORE. Why is it so important? What are you trying to prove by this? Senator WELKER. If you start to question on this questionnaire, we will be here until Christmas. The man did the best he could to answer the questions. You have him here in an open forum and you can put the questions to him if he hasn't answered them on the questionnaire. I join with the Senator from Rhode Island because we are going too far afield. Senator PASTORE. I don't think we ought to go into the intimate life of the witness. I don't think we ought to invade sanctity of the home. Mr. BAUMAN. I will ask the Chair to direct the witness to answer questions 57, 58, 59, and 61. The CHAIRMAN. Let's take them up separately. Mr. BAUMAN. I don't mean for them to be answered here, but for him to produce his answers to the committee staff, to the subcommittee. If the witness had made some of the answers he is now making on the questionnaire he would have not been subjected at any time to any of the embarrassment he is now undergoing. Senator HUNT. I would like to make this comment, especially in view of the fact that the major paid so many bills in cash, that it is impossible for the major or any member of this committee to answer some of these questions with reference to such things as his dental account in 1945 and his medical account in 1945, things of that kind. The man would need an expert bookkeeper and have a marvelous mind to be able to give that information. I don't think it is possible to get it. Mr. BAUMAN. If I may be permitted, I think what you say is absolutely correct in many particulars, but apparently the witness is remembering this morning things he did not remember at the time the questionnaire was filled out. Senator PASTORE. Unless our investigative staff is prepared to show that this man paid exorbitant fees out of the ordinary, which are not consistent or comparable with this man's income, which would raise. the suspicion where did he get all this money, I don't think we ought to go into the intimate life of an individual, asking him what his doctor treated him for, asking him whether or not his wife was treated for any ailment. Unless we are prepared to give proof, we ought not to go on a fishing expedition of things that are very personal to every human being. Let's preserve the dignity of the individual. Mr. BAUMAN. May I say that I have not asked the witness what was wrong with him. I have not asked the witness if his wife suffered from any ailment. I have not asked the witness for any intimate family secrets. I say with regard to the bases for these questions that, where a man like this witness has dealt very, very largely in cash, unless we get the answers to these questions it never will be possible to show whether he lived within his income or beyond his income. Senator PASTORE. We are not going to show it by the bills he paid to dentists or doctors. We are going to show it by trips and some of the other things brought out here. The CHAIRMAN. Let the committee decide. Let's dispose of these questions. Mr. BAUMAN. In order to save the time of the committee, may I suggest that the witness be directed to answer these questions after he is off the stand and submit these answers to the committee? Senator WELKER. If he has any answers different than was contained in the questionnaire. Mr. BAUMAN. Yes, sir; that is correct. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair rules that that question has been sufficiently answered unless the major now has information he did not have at the time he executed the questionnaire. What is your next question, Mr. Bauman? Mr. BAUMAN. No. 58. The witness has shown himself capable of estimating and has already done so. The CHAIRMAN. He has already answered that one. Mr. BAUMAN. No. 59. The CHAIRMAN. Major, I assume that shows the amount you paid. Mr. BARRETT. That is the amount my wife and I agreed on in the hospital. The CHAIRMAN. Did you make an effort to estimate the expenditures for the other years? Mr. BARRETT. It is impossible for me to state. Senator HUNT. Major, except 1947, did you have any unusual medical expenses? Mr. BARRETT. In 1947; yes, I did. Senator HUNT. I say other than 1947, in your family was there any extensive illness, any long hospitalization, any extensive or major operations? I think you can answer the question that way. Mr. BARRETT. No major operations. I believe I had an illness, but I don't recall the year. The years get me. Senator HUNT. That is understandable. I think my question was put to you in such a way that you can answer it. Did you have, other than 1947, any major or unusually expensive operations, hospital bills, doctor bills, and things of that kind? Mr. BARRETT. I had one before 1947; yes, sir, just before. It was in 1947. It was the early part of 1947. Senator HUNT. Is your answer that other than 1947 you had no unusual or extra large hospital, medical, or dental bills? Mr. BARRETT. No, sir. Senator HUNT. I think that is the answer to the question. The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the witness will be requested to answer, to the best of his ability, the remaining questions specified by Mr. Bauman. Mr. BARRETT. I answered them as truthfully as I could. The CHAIRMAN. Please amplify your previous answers, if you can. Mr. BAUMAN. I just want to ask one last question along this line. In answer to question 62, Major, you said that the cost of the domestic help in the home in the year 1950 was $750; is that right? Mr. BARRETT. My wife did. Mr. BAUMAN. Did you, for any other purpose, say that you had spent a greater amount during the year 1950? Mr. BARRETT. You are talking about my home? Mr. BAUMAN. Did you ever tell anybody that the cost of your maid in 1950 was $1,300 rather than $750? Mr. BARRETT. The cost of my maid? Mr. BAUMAN. Yes. Mr. BARRETT. I have never talked to anybody in my life about a maid. I have seen her very seldom because when I am home she is not there—very few times. Since I have been retired, I got rid of her. I have never paid her a cent. I wouldn't know. Mr. BAUMAN. Did you ever, in connection with any proceeding or in connection with any inquiry by any Government body make the statement over your signature, or has it been made over the signature of your wife, to the best of your knowledge, that in 1950 you spent $1,300 for domestic help rather than $750 as appears in the questionnaire? Mr. BARRETT. I make the statement over my signature? I would have to see it. I don't recall anything about it. Mr. BAUMAN. I am going to repeat. Did you ever make that statement over your signature, that in the year 1950 the total cost of the maid was $1,300 rather than $750, which you set forth in the questionnaire? Mr. BARRETT. I don't recall it. Mr. BAUMAN. Which is the truth, Major? Mr. BARRETT. I don't know. I don't know what my wife paid her maid. Mr. BAUMAN. You don't take very much interest in what goes on in the way of payment of bills in your establishment. Mr. BARRETT. I never have anything to do with the maid. Mr. BAUMAN. As a man with a limited income, wouldn't you be interested in the amount of money that was being expended for that purpose? Mr. BARRETT. Yes, but I would have to go into details with my wife before I can answer it. Unless you show me something thereMr. BAUMAN. I don't propose to show you anything, Major. Mr. BARRETT. I don't expect you to. Mr. BAUMAN. I am asking you if you ever made such a statement over your signature. Mr. BARRETT. If you are talking about any income tax, my wife gave me that information and I have to say, "Yes," but she furnished the information and it is an error some way. It is either an error on the questionnaire or an error on that. Mr. BAUMAN. That is obvious. Do you know what the amount was in the year 1950? Mr. BARRETT. I do not know. I told you that I do not have any idea. The maid that we have comes to my house certain days a week, to my daughter's house-since she has been married-certain days, and it is impossible for me to tell. Mr. BAUMAN. Do you know Roger Simkins? Mr. BARRETT. Yes, sir. Mr. BAUMAN. Do you know him personally? Mr. BARRETT. I know him through reputation, and I have met him while I was either captain or chief of detectives in the robbery squad at Police Headquarters. Mr. BAUMAN. Do you know his wife, Yvonne Simkins? Mr. BARRETT. I believe yesterday was the first time I ever saw her. Mr. BAUMAN. Have you ever seen Roger Simkins at your office? Mr. BARRETT. No, sir. Mr. BAUMAN. Have you ever seen him at his home or your home? Mr. BARRETT. I don't know where he lives. Mr. BAUMAN. How many times would you estimate you have seen him in the time you have known him? Mr. BARRETT. Well, I had him brought to my house to talk to in regard to that Brass Rail shooting, and I think I saw him at the grand jury, and I have seen him at the ball park several times. Mr. BAUMAN. May I have the last part of that read? (Reporter read last answer.) Mr. BAUMAN. How many times have you seen him at the ball park? Mr. BARRETT. I wouldn't know-football games, where I stand right near the gates where everybody comes in, with a bunch of policemen. Mr. BAUMAN. What ball park are we talking about-Griffith Stadium? Mr. BARRETT. We only have one here-Griffith Stadium. Mr. BAUMAN. I am new to Washington. You will have to bear with me. Did you check with him on those occasions? Mr. BARRETT. No, sir. We stand together. Most all the police officials who go meet in a group, and the internal-revenue agents, and all stand there and observe practically everybody who goes in and out. Have done it for years. Either in the circle or right over near the office. Mr. BAUMAN. How many to him in the last 4 years? in 1943; isn't that right? times would you estimate you have spoken Mr. BARRETT. Captain of detectives in 1941 and chief of detectives in 1943. Mr. BAUMAN. Yes, sir. Since you were chief of detectives how many times have you seen Roger Simkins to speak to, anywhere? Mr. BARRETT. To the best of my recollection, it is just like I told you. I had him brought into my house. I had him brought into the robbery squad either while I was chief of detectives or captain of detectives, and I have seen him numerous times out at the ball park. Mr. BAUMAN. Have you spoken with him on those occasions? Mr. BARRETT. Maybe he nodded his head to me or to the group of us who was standing there, but I have never talked to him. Mr. BAUMAN. You have nodded back? Mr. BARRETT. Not necessarily. Mr. BAUMAN. Passed the time of day with him? |