Our third hearing opens today with the Department of the Interior which has 58,502 employees as of June 30, 1962; spent $32,327,070 on payroll alone in June of 1962, and has an annual budget of $1,121,500,000.

The Department is the vast, long-established agency which is the guardian of our natural resources. Its principal mission is sound conservation and development of our water, land, forest, and mineral resources. It runs our national parks, our other public lands, Indian affairs, power development resources, fish and wildlife and has a host of other responsibilities. Every citizen in this Nation stands to benefit in some way from the work of this Department.

Interior is curiously named, for much of its domain is the great outdoors and it is suitably headed by a man who came from the West to represent Arizona in Congress. I am very pleased to present this morning this fine outdoorsman and New Frontier fighter, our friend and former colleague Secretary Stewart Udall.

STATEMENT OF HON. STEWART J. UDALL, SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR; ACCOMPANIED BY JOHN A. CARVER, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, PUBLIC LAND MANAGEMENT; D. OTIS BEASLEY, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT SECRETARY; EDWARD W. FISHER, DEPUTY SOLICITOR; AND ERNEST F. HOM, ASSISTANT SOLICITOR, LAND APPEALS

Secretary UDALL. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me say as a former Member of the House that I think that hearings of this type where the Congress exercises its surveillance function are most useful and I am hopeful if we are not on our toes, if our minds are not working as sharply as they should, if there are things we overlook, that the committee will point these things out to us and work with us in making corrections. I am very hopeful we can produce constructive results as a result of this hearing.

I have a prepared statement, Mr. Chairman.

COMMITTEE'S STIMULATION FOR EFFICIENT AND ECONOMICAL
GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS

The concern of this committee, under the chairmanship of Congressman Jack Brooks, with encouraging efficient and economical Government operations, strikes a responsive chord.

As a citizen, as a former Member of the House of Representatives, and now as the Secretary of the Interior I am pleased to see this interest on the part of the committee and to be able personally to participate in these hearings.

As a Congressman and as Secretary of a major executive department I have found that there is more interest by the public in new programs of the Department and the spectacular program developments of a new dam or a new salt water conversion process or new national park than in the efficiencies of the day-to-day operations of the Department.

While I must respond to the public's views on the programs for which the Department is responsible, I am equally concerned with how well the Department is doing its total job. What can be done to get more from the limited appropriations made by the Congress and

how to avoid asking for increases to accomplish the broad areas of resource planning, investigation, development, and management that fall under my jurisdiction is an endless task. I welcome the assistance of this committee.

Assumption of the duties of Secretary of the Interior has brought the scope and importance of these considerations to my immediate attention. While I have found that each of the bureaus and offices has a broad array of vital programs to accomplish in mineral resources, in water and power development, in fish and wildlife, and in public land management, including Indian affairs, territorial matters, and recreation coordination--there is even much more than can and needs to be done to meet the projected demands and needs of this Nation and of the world. It was reassuring to find that an active concern for efficiency and economy of operations within the Department did exist and was in the minds of responsible officials and employees at all levels.

More can and will be done. Efforts of this committee through these hearings will certainly sharpen our attention in the direction of achieving more efficiency and economy.

DEPARTMENTAL SCIENCE ADVISER

During my tenure of office, where I have encountered apparent weaknesses, I have taken action. In this connection one of my first steps was the appointment of Dr. Roger Revelle as science adviser to the Secretary. My department has many scientific activities. There is no way that a Secretary who is a nonscientist could ever see many of these activities handled properly, nor could he know whether you were getting $1 worth of research for $1 invested and this was a recommendation, incidentially, of the President's science advisory group, Dr. Wiesner who has since been given greater responsibilities.

I think this has worked out extremely well. To repeat, in this connection one of my first steps was the appointment of Dr. Roger Revelle as science adviser to the Secretary to give top management attention to the research programs of the Department and their improved management as well as to strengthen the Department's role in the total Government research effort through the Federal Council of Research and Technology and working with Office of Science and Technology in the Executive Office of the President.

RESOURCES PROGRAM STAFF

Paralleling this action was the establishment of the resources program staff and adjustments in other staff units in the Office of the Secretary to strengthen the Department's management capability. My objectives here were to strengthen the long-range program development function in the bureaus and Department-wide to effect better coordination of efforts to achieve our program objectives as well as to give attention to problems of economic analyses of resource programs. better field coordination, and more effective secretarial staff assistance in the field of international activities and area redevelopment.

With small but effective staff units at the secretarial level in these fields as well as for science, information, and various facets of administrative management, the greatest potential can be realized from the manpower in the operating bureaus in achieving departmental pro

gram objectives economically, efficiently, and effectively. The response of the Bureau of the Budget and the appropriation committees in helping to strengthen these secretarial staff arms has been appreciated.

OUTDOOR RECREATION BUREAU

One of the functions we have been given since January, Mr. Chairman, we have established in a new bureau. Of course this adds to our cost and adds to our payrolls. I think the administration takes some satisfaction and I think all of those who are interested-including Members of Congress-in the job we are trying to do in outdoor recreation and conservation, should take considerable satisfaction in this Bureau. It has been a real source of satisfaction to me to have the experience of starting a new bureau from scratch. We were able to get an outstanding career public servant, Dr. Edward Crafts, who was the second man in the Forest Service in the Department of Agriculture, to head this new Bureau. This is not a bureau that is going to proliferate and have a lot of people. Its primary function is a coordination function-the coordination of Federal activities in outdoor recreation and conservation and coordination of Federal-State relationships. We have attempted in setting up this new Bureau, in recruiting our new people, to shoot for people of quality, people who can carry a heavy load. We are not interested in having a large number of people. We know if we have able people, people who can work with the other departments, that this is the key to the success of this Department. Our initial budgets are not scheduled to be large, but these functions are very important and we are launching several new programs. We have several new legislative items that are pending at the present time in the Congress and we are having a great deal of success because of the strong bipartisan support for a new conservation effort. But this has been a very satisfying experience to me and I think we are off to a good start with this new Outdoor Recreation Bureau.

This Bureau has been created in response to recommendations of the President's Outdoor Recreation Resources Review Commission primarily out of existing personnel and funds of this Department and with only a minimum of new funds to get underway. Careful attention is being given in developing the program and staff of the new Bureau to avoid duplication of staff and technical capabilities that exist in this and other departments. A modest staff is being provided to carry the leadership and coordination roles required to achieve the broad objectives outlined in ORRRC report. It has been heartening to see the cooperative reactions received from the officials of the new Bureau as well as from those in the existing bureaus and offices of the Department that are making such an arrangement possible.

SQUATTERS ON LOWER COLORADO RIVER

I have also taken action on a number of major policy and program matters that have permitted important programs to move ahead. A positive program of corrective action was developed and put into motion to resolve the longstanding impasse on the issue of squatters on Government lands in the lower Colorado River area-at long last, revenues are beginning to flow into the U.S. Treasury and the rights of individuals and the Government are being resolved.

AREA REDEVELOPMENT PROGRAM

The Department of the Interior's participation in ARA was given leadership and stimulation through the efforts of secretarial staff members. Rather than set up a duplicate organization in the Office of the Secretary or a new bureau to give attention to this program, such bureau and office was brought in to do its part through its existing staff as an additional duty. The results have been very encouraging with a number of expenditure of additional funds within Interior.

PRICE REDETERMINATION CLAUSE IN HELIUM CONTRACTS

To demonstrate the responsiveness of the Department to suggestions for improvements in its management, I would like to refer to item 5 of the chairman's letter regarding these hearings. And this is a matter your committee raised, and I think quite properly, and it has been raised also by the Appropriations Subcommittee headed by Congressman Kirwan. Just last week I notified the House Committee on Appropriations that a price redetermination clause ould be incorporated in any future helium conservation contracts. The helium conservation program is a major program; it is a big one and I think a very sound one. We had been wasting over a period of years, and I think waste of natural resources is even more deplorable than waste of Government moneys because here we have stored in nature a great natural resource and in this era of the space age we are entering into, helium is absolutely essential for some of the science and technological activities that we are engaging in. And yet through the regular use of natural gas the helium which, as you know, is an inert gas, just escapes out into the air, and was being lost.

Congress 2 years ago, I think it was, voted a helium conservation program. They said, "Let's extract this helium from the natural gas lines: let's store it at a central storage place and it will not be lost."

This program I think is off to a good start but I am quite willing to concede the point made by this committee, and the Appropriations Committee, that redetermination clauses in contracts of this kind are in the public interest. I think we should have had it in the earlier contracts. We are going to have it in all of the subsequent contracts that are executed in encouraging the program, and I think this in itself has made the work of this committee worth while. When a question was raised on the absence of such a provision in four contracts already executed, I had the matter studied and concluded that sound public administration dictated such a provision be inserted in all future contracts.

There are likely to be instances of honest differences of views regarding some of the policies and practices followed by the Department. I only ask that when this occurs, those holding a view different from ours will give the same careful analysis to all aspects of the issue as we will accord to any suggestion we receive.

RESPONSIBILITY FOR GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY AND ECONOMY

In closing, I would like to thank the committee for its interest in this vital topic of Government efficiency and economy and for the opportunity to appear before you. Also, we appreciate reviewing advance information on the specific fields of inquiry that you plan to

make. Such advance notice contributes to intelligent and informed discussion of the points of issue.

My Administrative Assistant Secretary, D. Otis Beasley, and Assistant Secretary Carver will have more specific statements to make on Interior's record of accomplishments and current efforts to encourage efficient and economical operation and will be available to respond or arrange for the response to the 19 specific issues that you have raised.

Let me add one other thing. As a trustee and guardian of the natural resources that are owned by the people of this country this Department in the past has been from time to time the focus of very serious charges because one has to be extremely cautious in handling the mineral reserves that we have and the public lands. There have been in the past charges made and at times these charges have been made to stick. We are very sensitive and attempt to be extremely alert in our handling of our natural resources and responsibilities, whether it is a matter of the oil reserves on the Continental Shelf or the oil and mineral reserves in inland areas in the United States. Day in and day out we handle leasing and we handle a lot of contracts involving millions of dollars. Royalties coming into the Government are very substantial. Ours is one of the few departments where this is true. In fact, there are many bureaus that I have, where the income from the activities of these bureaus far exceed what the Congress puts in annually in appropriations. In fact for our total Department, as I think my people will point out to you, we come closer to paying our own way in terms of our receipts as against appropriations than almost any other department.

We are necessarily, Mr. Chairman, at the Department, because of our increasing responsibilities, in a position where we have to have some growth. We have asked and will continue probably to ask for some increases in appropriations. We try to hold it down as much as we can, we try to key it to present size responsibilities, where we absolutely need additional manpower and additional appropriations to carry out our responsibilities properly.

With that statement I will be most happy to answer any questions the committee may have.

I would like to say I have some other commitments this morning and my associates and my assistants are I think better prepared than I in some instances to answer specific questions.

I am very happy to be with you this morning.

Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Secretary, we are delighted to have your statement and think that it reflects that you share fully the administration's determination to make every effort to get an honest dollar's service for the public out of every taxpayer's dollar that we have.

Certainly we don't feel, I believe, that there are any potential Teapot Domes over in the Interior Department now.

Secretary UDALL. I wish you would let me know if you hear of any, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BROOKS. We believe there may be some coffeepot problems where the concessionaires are doing right well.

I would like to say we certainly are interested in the Department making every effort to get a fair return on mineral royalty leases and we have one or two questions on that which we will take up later.

I would like to cover these points. I don't think it would take too long to handle the major problems we have on concessionaires while