He believed that, although the voluntary system had to some extent failed, it had done a great deal, and we might fairly expect that it would do more under the gentle compulsion which would be exercised under this Bill. He believed that if it was clear to the inhabitants of a given district that, unless sufficient provision were made for education within a certain time by voluntary effort, compulsion would be used, the necessary effort would generally be made.

Up to this time the State had expended many millions in fostering a system of religious teaching, and, in his opinion, it would be a monstrous thing now to turn round upon persons who had hitherto acted on the faith of the denominational system supported by Parliament, and to say that under the new compulsory system denominational schools should receive no advantage. The adoption of a sufficient Conscience Clause would meet all reasonable objections, and on this point an alteration had been made in the Bill which he hoped would render it more acceptable than that of last year. It might be objected that the Bill did not completely provide for such compulsory action as might be necessary in districts where sufficient education was not afforded. He proposed that one-tenth in number, or in value, of the ratepayers might apply to the Committee of Council for an inquiry into the educational state of their district, and that, thereupon, an order might be made; and the Bill also provided that, in default of such application, the Committee of Council might itself take action.

It seemed to him inevitable that before long, considering the extent to which it was proposed that the State should deal with the schools not only of the lower but of the middle classes, a Minister of Education must be appointed; and Parliament would take care that such a Minister was responsible to it for a proper performance of his duties. The great difficulty of anything like a national system of education in this country was the want of a proper local organisation.

In certain districts it might be convenient to erect free schools for the children of extremely poor persons. The Bill gave power to do so, which, however, would be exercised cautiously, and only in extreme cases, as it would enable the local committee to arrange with the manager for making payments in that special class of cases for poor children whose parents were known to be unable to pay. In most instances that would be sufficient to meet local pecularities; but he saw no reason why places like Manchester, Liverpool, and Birmingham should not have free schools if they chose, and he did not fear that they would be largely brought into competition with the other schools so as to ruin their resources.

Leave was given to bring in the Bill.

Public Elementary Education.

The DUKE OF MARLBOROUGH rose (March 24) to call the attention of their lordships to the subject of Public Elementary Education. The noble duke spoke in substance as follows:-There is scarcely, I believe, any subject which ought to be so tenderly treated as that of Education. Whether we consider its great and vital importance, or whether we consider the vast amount of feeling and of voluntary effort that is enlisted in its support, we must, upon every side, acknowledge that it is a subject of the deepest public interest, and one in which if we were to take a false step, or to arrive at a hasty conclusion, we might be committing an irretrievable error, and instead of forwarding these objects which we must all have at heart, we might be doing irremediable mischief. If there ever were a subject upon which I might claim and entreat that the views of party politics might be laid

aside, it is upon this. The Government, in considering this subject, have felt that, in order to propose any measure to Parliament which would be of a satisfactory character, it would be necessary to take a wide and full view of the whole subject, so that any proposal they might submit to Parliament might have the characteristics of a national system-a system which might become part of our permanent legislation. We are not now beginning for the first time to deal with this question. The task that is imposed upon us is to review what is already in existence, to remember the great interests that are already involved in the question, and to survey what has already been done. In asking you to change to some extent the present system, it is only fair to consider at the outset what is the system and what are the wants which we have to supply. From the report of the commissioners of 1861—a report which I am surprised to find has been a good deal overlooked in the various discussions upon this subject-I find that in that year the number of children whose names ought to have been on the school books, according to the population, was 2,655,000, while the actual number of the children of the poor who were receiving elementary education in day schools was 2,213,000. Comparing that proportion with the proportion existing in Prussia, which is commonly supposed to have attained such great success in this matter, we find that whereas Prussia has one in six of the population at school, this country had in that year one in seven or one in eight. The commissioners went on to state how rapid and how great had been the increase of Education in this country since the year 1803. In that year there were 1 in 173 of the population at school; in the year 1818, there were 1 in 17; in the year 1833, there were 1 in 11; in 1851, there were 1 in 8.36, and in 1858, there were 1 in 7.7. We cannot deny, therefore, that great progress has been made in Education. I do not contend that great wants do not exist in this case; but I contest the notion that the educational wants of this country are so very enormous as they have been represented to be.

I will now proceed to refer to a more recent return, which has been obtained through the agency of the decennial inquiry prosecuted by the National Society. In the agricultural county of Berks, in the year 1856–57, there were 15,125 children at school, while in the year 1867 the number was 18,469, or 1 in 11.2 of the population in the former year, and one in 9.7 of the population in the latter year. In the mixed agricultural and manufacturing county of Chester, in 1856–57, the number was 1 in 17 of the population, and in 1867 1 in 14. In the great manufacturing county of Lancaster, the numbers at the same periods were 1 in 23, and one in 19. These returns, therefore, show the great progress there has recently been made in Education, as far as regards the Church of England schools. These facts, I think, show that the state of our Elementary Education is not so defective as to justify any great alarm or to call for any very strong measures by way of remedy.

In looking at the various modes in which it is proposed to meet the educational wants of the country, we may, I think, class them under three heads. The first of these is an extension of that great system which is at present in operationnamely, that of voluntary efforts, aided by Government grants and public subscriptions. The second proposal, which may be applied to the same end, either in substitution of the first or as an auxiliary to it, is that of voluntary initiation, but supported out of public rates instead of by public or private subscriptions; and the third is one which would depend mainly on the action of the Government, who would have to take cognizance of the general educational wants of the country, and to provide a remedy for any deficiencies that might not be locally supplied. We have had very fully under our consideration the second of these schemes

namely, that of providing for the public education by means of voluntary efforts, aided by public rates; and it is impossible to deny that there are very great diffioulties in the way of the adoption of that proposal.

I must again advert to the Report of 1861. The subject of parochial rating was one to which they directed their especial attention, and the conclusion at which they arrived was that the compulsory system of parochial rating would supply school buildings, and the means of paying for Education in all parts of the country more rapidly than any other system, but that Education was not a subject in reference to which local vigilance was likely to be exercised; and that from the administration of rates generally, it was not likely that ratepayers would practice that liberality which was necessary to secure an efficient system of Education. They also state that very great difficulty would arise if a system of general rating were adopted which would involve the introduction of religious questions in the management of the schools. They proposed that whatever aid was to be given to schools obtaining aid from the State should be given on the area of the county rate, and that the county rate should be the fund from which the payments should be made. When Mr. Lowe was asked why this proposal was not carried out, he said he believed it was impracticable, and that it would be impossible to persuade the House to agree to it.

The result of the Commissioners' Report was the production of the Revised Code, by means of which that aid which it had been contemplated should be given out of the county rate, devolved on the public exchequer. That system was founded on payment by results, the payment made by the State, in addition to subscriptions and school pence, averaging 15s. per child.

I now come to the plan proposed for raising rates over limited areas, and for purely local purposes; and here we are met by a great difficulty in regard to what are to be the denominations of the schools under such a plan. I see no sort of escape out of that difficulty except by making those schools secular schools, as was proposed by Mr. Lowe. But we are not prepared to propose that schools supported out of rates should be conducted on purely secular principles. Again, in boroughs the burdens already imposed upon the ratepayers are very great, and of an increasing character.

I believe that the large amount of property at present involved in charitable endowments might in some cases be made applicable to the purposes of Elementary Education; and the Commissioners consider that above £160,000 a year might be so applied from that property.

Under all the circumstances which I have now detailed, I do not think we should be justified at this moment in introducing either a general or a partial system of compulsory rating for educational purposes. Nobody can consider the great system which has been in operation for the last forty years in this country, and can witness the vast effects which it has produced, without feeling that it was founded on great wisdom, has produced immense results, and is worthy of becoming part of a national system. It has not however done the work required. There is a large number of unaided schools which require assistance. The defects which we believe to exist in the present system are these. The Code is a complicated system. Its changes are often not brought under the cognizance of Parliament. It cannot take the initiative. And, finally, the Administrative Department is overworked.

It is the intention of the Government to ask Parliament to enable Her Majesty to appoint a Secretary of State, who shall have the whole range of educational matters under his direction and control, and not only administer the Grants now administered by the Privy Council, but shall on his own responsibility look into all

the various matters connected with the Education of the country, and propose to Parliament those schemes which may be thought desirable. We also, therefore, propose to insert in the Bill those portions of the Revised Code which relate to the distribution of the Grants, and the terms on which the Grants are made.

Again, it has long been felt as an evil that there are a large number of schools already in existence which do not partake of the Public Grant. This arises mainly from two causes. One is that there is a very large number of Nonconformist congregations who have a strong feeling that the State ought to have no connection whatever with religion, and they feel they have been shut out of the Public Grants on account of their conscientious convictions. We propose to pay for results on secular teaching alone; but that where the Inspectors are not bound to inquire into religious teaching they shall continue not to inquire,and where they are bound to inquire under the management clauses we do not propose to interfere. Where a school offers itself to be inspected, complying with the conditions as regards sanitary arrangements, and as to the conduct and management of the school, and as to certificated teachers and pupil teachers, then when it offers itself for examination in reading, writing, and arithmetic, that school shall not be denied the benefit of the Government grant. The next point on which we consider a change desirable is with regard to the poorer districts, in which a very large number of unaided schools exist. Some of the conditions imposed on schools before they can obtain assistance press very severely on small parishes. Let it not be supposed that we mean to abandon the system of certificates, for I believe it to be one of vast importance. It is one which exists not only in England, but in almost every country that has put Education on a satisfactory basis-in France, Switzerland, Holland, Germany-and without it we should lose much of the guarantee we have for the good character and morality which are so essential in the teaching of the young. There are, however, many small schools which have found a difficulty in providing certificated teachers, and we propose to establish some limit below which schools may receive a portion of the annual grant without having such teachers. We have adopted the limit fixed by Mr. Corry's minute, and have provided that where a school having only 65 children shall have been certified as suitable as to cleanliness, building, and space, though it may not have a certificated teacher, it may present its scholars in the three subjects of reading, writing, and arithmetic, and may obtain 2s. 8d. allotted to such subjects, the payment of 4s. 10d. being given only where there is a certificated master or mistress. We also propose to make an addition to the building grant. At present evening schools get no aid from the State unless they are connected with a day school. We propose to place all evening schools on the same foundation. I now come to an important part of the question-I mean that which is commonly called the Conscience Clause. We consider that where only one school can be maintained the principle of the Conscience Clause is an equitable one; but that the application of it ought to depend entirely upon there being only a single school. At the same time, we are anxious to remove some of the complaints against the existing form of the Conscience Clause imposed upon the Church of England Schools.

The Government having come to the conclusion, which, I think, will be generally accepted by the public, that two great principles should be observed-the liberty of teaching on the one side, and the liberty of withdrawal on the other-propose a definite form of clause, not subject to change according to the opinions of any set of men who may be in office, but sanctioned and ratified by Act of Parliament, which, with the authority of Parliament, shall express what it is to which the children shall be bound, and to what liberty they shall be entitled. The clause we

propose will provide that 'all questions connected with the nature, amount, and character of the religious instruction to be given in any school towards the erection of which a building grant has been made shall be decided exclusively by the person or persons who may be invested with authority in that behalf by the clauses in the trust deed. No child residing within the limits to be fixed by the Secretary of State shall be excluded by the school or deprived of its benefits and privileges on account of the religious persuasion of the said child, or of the parent, guardian, or other person having the care of it, or on account of the withdrawal of such child from any part of the instruction given or worship held therein, under the provisions hereinbefore contained; and no such child shall be compelled to attend any Sunday school or Church, or other place of worship on a Sunday, as a condition of receiving instruction on week days, and any such parent, guardian, or other person as aforesaid, shall have a right to withdraw the child from any lesson given, or form of worship used, or religious instruction given in such school, upon giving notice to the principal teacher of the school that he objects to such lesson, or form of worship, or religious service, on religious grounds.'

The concluding provision of the Bill is to enable the Secretary of State to obtain information as to the state of Education in the country. We have inserted a clause giving the Secretary of State power to order an educational census to be taken to an extent specified in the Bill. Such is the measure we have prepared. We do not consider it a complete measure, because under the present circumstances it is not possible to frame a complete measure: We believe, however, that it will be the foundation of an ample system of Education. We propose to confirm and place in a definite shape that which is already in existence. We propose to create a department which shall have the responsibility of initiating measures that may be for ihe benefit of the country, and we propose to put into the hands of the new Minister all the powers necessary to enable him to perform those functions. I trust the plan is one that will be found to work well, and that it will be admitted to be as much as, under present circumstances, we can propose.

LORD GRANVILLE was afraid that the success of the plan of the noble Duke, however well it might be meant, was not likely to be ensured. The noble Duke proposed to turn the code into an Act of Parliament. These minutes had changed every year, not without necessity. The noble Duke said that Parliament did not exercise control in the matter: but he did not agree with that, and he believed there was no document presented to Parliament which was more carefully looked for, because it affected the pecuniary position of persons in every county in England. As regarded the Conscience Clause, he must thank the noble Duke for adopting the principle which he had that night announced. From hearing the Clause read he found no objection to it; but of course he should reserve his opinion till he had found an opportunity of seeing the Bill. He certainly concurred with the noble Duke in what he had said with respect to certificated masters. With reference to the appointment of a Secretary of State, he knew that there had been a general outcry for the appointment of a Minister of Education. He thought much overapprehension existed on the subject, on the ground of its being supposed that the department as now constituted had not sufficient responsibility attached to it. He was sure the noble Duke felt himself responsible. When he administered the department he was assisted by men of admirable business habits, in one case by a man of great genius, and it was impossible that such men should be without responsibility in the other House of Parliament. He did not think the House of Commons would like to pay for a Secretary of State with a number of attendants, and if the minutes were turned into an Act of Parliament there would be still less need for such an official.