Total induction by age, November 1940 through March 1941—Continued

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Chandler desires to ask a question. Senator CHANDLER. General Marshall, I regret exceedingly that it has developed in the testimony that because of these limitations that have been imposed it makes it more difficult for you to make certain the defenses necessary for the people of the United States. I have a couple of little boys who like to play soldiers. They can move their soldiers wherever they want to. It looks like they require you to play army against the fellow that is playing for keeps. I want to give you my support for whatever it is worth. I sympathize with the terrific job you have got.

I heard over the radio the other day, just by accident, a broadcast that I think ought to be delivered to every selectee in the United States. I think it was Fulton Lewis, Jr. He was talking to a selectee named Stephen McCormick. I know Fulton Lewis but I do not know Stephen McCormick. He asked him about being in the Army. He said he was in the Army. He asked him, "How long are you going to stay?" The selectee said, "I do not know whether it is 3 months or 3 years, but as long as we have a job to do, I think everybody ought to be there to do it."

I agree with that statement. All the countries that do not exist any more, except they have had to remove their rulers, their cabinets, and government to some other place, because they have had too little too late and had been too careless with their plans.

I think it is high time that the Congress of the United States gives to you, as Chief of our Staff, all the men and money that you need. If you cannot protect the country with the Army, then what would any of us do today? I would not want, for anything in the world, to keep you from being able to protect the people of our country.

I would not want you to tell, for anything in the world, some foreign enemy or some foreign government what you are ready to do with the troops of the United States. I do not think anybody else ought to do it. I was in the Army at 18 years of age; I did not do very much. That was the last time I was in. I am subject to call now. If I am of more use to you there than I am here, I am ready to do it. I supported you then, and I am going to support you now. We should quit trying to make you play war and play soldier.

I am tremendously alarmed with the developments in the Pacific. When Mr. Clark was on the stand here last year and supported compulsory military training, I asked him if he thought then there was danger in the Pacific. I always felt like we were forcing enemies to come 1,500 miles nearer to us in undefended portions of the United States.

I think you made a magnificent effort, and personally I am not going to be a party to limiting the power and authority of the War Department with some supposed fear that you are going to do something to the people of the United States that ought not to be done. I think it is like a high-school team in my part of the country playing Notre Dame. They want you to release soldiers this fall. Where would we be if we got into the war? I do not believe the President wants you to go into the war, but if you go into it, we cannot win it by training an army and letting it go home. I leave that with you for whatever it is worth to you. You are going to have my support.

General MARSHALL. I thank you very much, Senator. I was thinking, while you were speaking, of a note someone gave me yesterday, about Mr. Newton D. Baker, for whom I have a higher regard than for any other man I have known because of his integrity, his mental ability, and unselfish purpose. He had written to General MacArthur in 1935, I think, that he knew of no case in history where an Army officer had fomented war in the United States.

I know it to be the fact that the atmosphere in the War Department. has been averse to the possibilities of war, more so, I believe, than in any other group of people in the United States. It has been our determination to bring the Army to such a state of efficiency that nobody would dare to interfere with our freedom of action.

Senator CHANDLER. People have to go to war, usually to get killed. A fellow that goes on a public stump and asks the crowd, "Do you want to go to war to be killed? Do you want your sons killed?" Of course, the answer is "No." If they ask you, "Do you want to go into bankruptcy?" of course the answer is "No." I think it is silly for the fellow that wants to keep his feet on the ground and not specifically interested in the security of the people to say, "Do you want your son killed?" Of course, the answer is "No."

General MARSHALL. The issue, it seems to me, is whether or not we shall continue with the policy set up in the laws of last August and last September, or shall we now change our policy in the face of a situation much worse than that before us when those laws were enacted.

I do not know whether it has application, but I am reminded of a statement that always had a profound effect on me, especially when I was a staff officer with an Army in action in France. It used to give me pause when I was analyzing our plans. The statement was from Pericles, I believe, who said, "Avoid errors of your own choosing.' I think we must be very careful not to make that error.

Senator CHANDLER. There is a statement made by Senator Austin, who was one of the great statesmen of this Republic:

We ought not to fail to remove limitations that impose upon you hardships, that might, in case of an emergency that you cannot foresee, prevent you from being able to defend the people of the United States.

That would be a tragic thing. I would not want to carry that on my conscience.

Senator LEE. General Marshall, if you have erred, in my opinion, it has been on the side of being conservative. I have had the feeling, in the times that you have appeared before our committee, that you have reduced your own estimates in numbers of men and amounts of money, yielding somewhat to the pressure of those who do not believe that we should adequately defend this country. Do you believe that our chances of staying out of war will be increased by the increased strength of our Military Establishment?

General MARSHALL. I am strongly of that belief, sir. I know that every effort is being made right now by the most skillful propaganda agencies ever developed in the history of the world to take advantage of all of our deficiencies, of our debates in regard to them, and of our delays in perfecting our defense. Organized propaganda against us is one of our most serious considerations, Senator. It is rather difficult to talk about it, because there are diplomatic considerations. One of our most serious problems is the tremendous propaganda service all over Latin America organized by countries that are not only our enemies but the enemies of Latin America as well. This propaganda takes notice of everything that occurs in this country, magnifies it, distorts it, twists it to develop in the minds of those people a feeling that we are not only ineffective but that we are completely torn apart by dissensions. This propaganda is carried out in a most skillful way, but nevertheless, in a very open way, and on a tremendous scale.

Senator LEE. Then the confusion and weakness that would follow our failure to follow your recommendation in continuing the selectees would be seized upon immediately by the propaganda agents, the Axis agents in this country, in your opinion, and that would increase America's chances of war?

General MARSHALL. Yes, sir; I think failure to authorize the extension of those now in the service would be a fundamental and tragic error. It is difficult to prophesy in these days, but the release of these men at this particular time would defeat the effectiveness of a large portion of the vast amounts of money that have been appropriated. You would lose face immeasurably in the minds of other peoples who should be associated with us. Not only can our failure to take action be magnified and distorted, but those who know what is required for the development of an effective military force, would feel that half of their campaign had been won. Each step we have taken toward providing for our defense, each deliberate move we have made in that direction in time of peace, such as the Selective Training and Service Act, such as ordering into the Federal service of the National Guard, has had a profound effect on nations that are hostile to our purposes. We must not forfeit that advantage. We must not sacrifice the tremendous strides that we have made.

Senator LEE. In your opinion, if we fail to extend the time of the draftees, would it weaken America's prestige abroad?

General MARSHALL. Most decidedly, sir.

Senator LEE. And thereby increase the chances of war?

General MARSHALL. I think so, Senator.

Senator LEE. General Marshall, when you came before us in the first instance and asked for legislation drafting men to the military service, you prefaced your statement with the remark, I believe, that a grave danger confronted this country. Is that not true?

General MARSHALL. That is correct; sir.

Senator LEE. In your openion, is that danger greater or less today? General MARSHALL. Far greater; sir.

Senator LEE. If there was justification for drafting men in the first instance, there is even greater justification for continuing them in the service at the present time; is that not true?

General MARSHALL. Yes, sir; in my opinion, that is correct.

Senator LEE. On the radio I heard a commentator, who was stating the arguments on both sides of this question, state that those who are opposed to continuing the service of men in the armed forces were claiming that if we did not discharge them and send them back, we would be breaking faith with them. Now the law, or at least the bill that was brought up, and the law-I am reading now from S. 4164 as of July 3, 5, 11, and 12, 1940, hearings, and this bill was submitted, quoting:

If and so long as the United States is not at war, each man selected for training and service shall serve for a training period of 8 consecutive months.

This was the bill that was first submitted, on which hearings were held.

Provided, That if during his training period the Congress shall declare that the national interest is imperiled, he shall be subject to service until the national interest permits his being relieved from active service. The training of men shall include such vocational and educational training as may be prescribed, and men in training and service shall have an opportunity to qualify for office or rank. Each man, after completion of his training period, shall, for a period of 10 years, or until he shall reach 45, whichever is sooner, be a member of the Enlisted Reserve Corps of the United States Army.

Now, General, the reason I am reading that is to ask you if you have the same impression that I have? When we first passed this the purpose was to increase the defenses of the United States, and we passed this law because of an emergency. That emergency now being greater, it seems to me that it is entirely fallacious to argue that we are in any way breaking faith with men, when we set in the language of the original bill considered, and also in the law, a 10-year period that these men would be available for service if the situation was so critical in the minds of Congress, the Members of Congress, that required. their continuance in service.

Now, do you feel that in any way at all we are breaking faith with the men if we ask them, under the circumstances that exist today, to continue service?

General MARSHALL. I do not, sir, and I would like to read again my testimony before the Senate committee the other day regarding that specific point:

As to the 12 months' training for the selectee, I have received letters from parents who feel that a promise has been broken, that the Selective Training and Service Act promised one thing, and now the War Department is demanding another. I quote from the paragraph of the law concerned:

"Each man inducted under the provisions of subsection (a) shall serve for a training and service period of 12 consecutive months, unless sooner discharged, except that whenever the Congress has declared that the national interest is imperiled, such 12-month period may be extended by the President to such time as may be necessary in the interests of national defense."

The situation which existed at the time of the passage of the Selective Training and Service Act is quite different from the situation that confronts us today. That act set up a peacetime training system whereby we would be able to train a large reserve of soldiers. Each soldier, after 12 months of active service, would be transferred to a trained reserve, un.ess a national emergency existed.

The

In the opinion of the War Department, such an emergency now exists. President has deemed it expedient to declare an unlimited emergency concerning civil functions, and the War Department, and I personally, now believe it urgently necessary in the public interest for Congress to declare the existence of a national emergency.

That is as clear a statement as I can make, sir.

Senator LEE. Now, further, General, in addition to the fact that the War Department has said the emergency is greater than it was when we originally passed this law, if an addition to the President declaring a full emergency the Congress should, by its act, comply with the letter of this law and say that the situation is such as to put this law into effect by continuing the service, of the men, then, in your opinion, would Congress, or you, have broken faith with the men in the Army, or, in your opinion, would not we have kept the law, the letter and spirit of the law without any break in faith in any way that it could be interpreted?

General MARSHALL. I feel that neither Congress nor the War Department would have broken a promise. On the other hand I feel that both would have kept faith with the people of the United States. Senator LEE. And complied with the law?

General MARSHALL. Yes; and I think that last is of the greatest importance to remember.

Senator LEE. You feel we have complied with the law, as to the letter and spirit of the law?

General MARSHALL. Yes, sir.

Senator LEE. Now, General, a while ago

General MARSHALL (interposing). Just one moment, please. I would like to read from my own reply before the Senate Military Affairs Committee last summer to the question of how long the term of service should be.

"How long do you think it should be?" was the question. I replied, "Well, if we were allowed to set the figure, we would say 18 months. I am willing to compromise on 15 months, but it certainly must be at least a year." That is a peculiar way to state a compromise. "There is so much lost time in getting the men in and getting the men out that when you say a year, you only have them for about 11 months. There is so much training to be done that a year appears to be too short a time, especially at present. Now, when it comes to a future basis for the operation of such a scheme as this, say beginning a year from now," that is the time we are approaching now-"that is another matter."

Senator LEE. General, you beat me to that. I had that marked on page 341 of the hearings and was going to read it and in substantiation of my statement a while ago that you had erred, if at all, on the side of yielding to the pressure of those who criticized the military defense adequate to defend this country. In your judgment, when you came to the first instance, you believed, according to this, that we should have a minimum of 18 months service?

General MARSHALL. Yes, sir.

Senator LEE. And you compromised on 12 months?

General MARSHALL. I said that I would compromise on 15 but certainly we must have at least 12. I admit that is a peculiar way to put it, but I was trying to get the Selective Service Act passed.

Senator LEE. You were like aunty who said as to the size of her shoe, she wore an 8, but 10 felt so good, that she got a 12.