DeMarco encloses two copies of an estimate of the appraised value of the President's pre-Presidential papers currently stored at the Archives and a total value that Mr. Newman placed on them was $2,012,000.

And then he writes in the second paragraph:

You understand, of course, that this is just an estimate based on an examination done under extreme pressure and in a very short period of time.

It is, however, accurate enough to enable the President to make a determination as to the disposition of the material.

At the same time that Mr. Newman sent this preliminary appraisal of $2 million and some odd to Mr. DeMarco, he also sent a copy of the appraisal to the President.

Mr. BUTLER. Counsel, what was the status of the legislation on November 7, 1969? Had it been actually passed at that time?

Mr. NUSSBAUM. Yes. The House passed the legislation on August 7, 1969. The effective date-the House

Mr. BUTLER. Now, what date did the Senate pass it?

Mr. NUSSBAUM. I am going to get to that in a second. The Senate passed it on December 11, 1969. The effective date in the House legislation, and by effective date I mean the effective cutoff date, as Mr. Doar indicated earlier, on the House legislation that you cannot make a gift of papers any more, would have been December 31, 1969. In other words, the end of the year which we are dealing with now. So as of that moment in time, November, if you assume that the House bill would become law, then you still could make a gift of papers in 1969. The Senate bill, which passed on December 11, 1969, with an effective date, as Mr. Doar also indicated, of December 31, 1968, a year back, so you could no longer make a gift in 1969.

Mr. BUTLER. All right. Thank you very much. I think you have answered my question.

Mr. SARBANES. Can you carry it through? What was it after December 11? When was the conference, or is that coming later?

Mr. NUSSBAUM. It was going to come later but I can deal with it right now. On December 22, 1969, the conference report was issued and recommended an effective date for the elimination of the charitable deduction for gifts of papers to be July 25, 1969. This effective date was adopted by both Houses of Congress on that same day, December 22, 1969, and the President signed the bill into law on December 30, 1969. What I am reading from now, for the members of the committee, is on page 10 of our report which discusses, starting with the second full paragraph, which discusses the passage of the legislation. and how it became a part of the law. As you can see, I would just go a little bit more in detail, as you can see, Newman started working in the Archives on November 3, and then he continued working in November. He worked on November 3 and he worked from November 17 through November 20 at the Archives.

On November 21, the Senate Finance Committee, as our second paragraph on page 10 of our report indicates, the Senate Finance Committee reported out its version of the Tax Reform Act recommending that the charitable deduction for the gift of papers be eliminated effective December 31, 1968. So, the bill first came out of a congressional committee, a Senate committee, after Newman began working in the Archives in November 1969.

Now, as I indicated, Newman also sent a copy of this preliminary appraisal to the President earlier in November 1969, this preliminary appraisal of $2 million and some odd. Up to this point in time Newman had never met the President, to our knowledge. But, on November 16, Newman was in Washington, and the story I am now telling you is a story that Newman told me and Mr. McKeithen when we interviewed him. Newman was in Washington as a tourist and as a guest and he had a friend who was a military aide at the White House. And that friend, according to Mr. Newman, invited him to a White House breakfast, a breakfast on Sunday, November 16, Mr. Newman and his wife attended that breakfast on November 16. They went to the receiving line and for the first time on a receiving line Mr. Newman met the President. He introduced himself to the President on the receiving line as the President's appraiser and he said, "Did you," and I am just giving you the substance, "Did you get my preliminary appraisal which I sent to you, sir?" And the President said "Yes," he received it and he sort of threw up his hands and sort of smiled and said “I didn't know they were worth that much." And Mr. Newman replied "Mr. President, that is basically a conservative estimate of the papers." And that is the conversation Mr. Newman recollects with the President, the first conversation with the President, and to my knowledge, his last conversation with the President on November 16, 1969. Mr. MEZVINSKY. Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman ?

The CHAIRMAN. We are going to let Mr. Nussbaum finish his presentation.

Mr. MEZVINSKY. Well, the target as to the 1969 bill, can I just ask Mr. Nussbaum can you at all

The CHAIRMAN. Well, you can defer the questions until later. I am sure that the presentation will be completed very shortly and I am sure the questions can hold.

Mr. MEZVINSKY. OK. Fine.

Mr. NUSSBAUM. As I indicated, Mr. Newman was in the Archives in November 1969. He prepared his preliminary appraisal, he sent it to the President, and he continued to work in the Archives after the preliminary appraisal from November 17 to November 20. He claims he really didn't hear from Mr. DeMarco much during this particular time.

On December 22, as I indicated, Congress passed a bill, both Houses passed a conference report eliminating a gift of papers effective July 25, 1969. Mr. Newman then recollects that on December 24, 1969. he had a telephone conversation with Mr. DeMarco. Mr. Newman's recollection of this is as follows:

Mr. Newman asked Mr. DeMarco if there was anything else to be done now in light of the fact that the Congress had passed the bill which apparently was going to be signed by the President, and which was signed on December 30, eliminating the possibility of making a gift of papers unless it was done by July 25, 1969. Mr. Newman recalls Mr. DeMarco telling him there was nothing more to do. Mr. DeMarco has no recollection of this conversation with Mr. Newman.

Now, Mr. Newman also stated to us he was the appraiser of the President's papers and we asked Mr. Newman if he knew at the end, as of the end of 1969 whether any gift of papers had been made by the President in 1969. He said he did not know of any such gift. He said

he did not know whether a gift had been made, he did not know whether a gift had not been made. No one had told him at the end of 1969 as to whether a gift was made.

We asked him what his impression was as the President's appraiser at the end of 1969, and as the report indicates, he said he thought that the President had not made a gift as of the end of 1969 and the words he used to us is: "I thought they had blown it." He said to us

Mr. BUTLER. Mr. Chairman, the report you gave us says "I thought he had blown it" and my reading of it means he referred to Mr. DeMarco and not to the President. Now, which one was your intention here?

Mr. NUSSBAUM. I'm sorry. The report is accurate. "I thought he had blown it" is what Mr. Newman said to us.

Mr. SEIBERLING. Regular order, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BUTLER. I think that is regular order. I think we ought to insist on some accuracy here.

Mr. NUSSBAUM. I'm sorry Congressman.

Mr. BUTLER. Well I am too.

Mr. NUSSBAUM. I was not looking down at the report. The words were "I thought he had blown it." And as I indicated, Mr. DeMarco does not recollect this December 24, telephone conversation at all with Mr. Newman.

Now, turning to 1970, to certain events in 1970, there are two memorandums which I would like to direct the committee's attention to in 1970. One was written on January 9, 1970, and it is contained at page A-265 of the joint committee report. And the other is written on February 2, 1970, and that is contained at page A-267 of the joint committee report.

The memorandum on page A-265 is from Mr. Rhodes who is the Archivist of the United States, to the Administrator of the General Service Administration. And it notes, if you look in the second paragraph, it says:

Foremost in importance was the expected donation of President Nixon of another increment in his pre-Presidential papers as a second installment to those deeded to the Government of the United States in December 1968. No such donation was made in December 1969, although we understand that all plans had been made for it.

The memorandum which is contained on page A-267, which is also a memorandum from the Archivist of the United States to the GSA Administrator, as you can see it says and I am reading from page A-267, exhibit I-34, a memorandum dated February 2, 1970, and the first paragraph says:

The following information is given for your use in a discussion with Mr. Bob Haldeman on Tuesday, February 3, concerning the development of a President Nixon Presidential Library.

And then it has a subdivision A, status of Nixon Papers, and under that 2, and it says:

We had expected a deed of gift from the President covering a second installment of papers before the end of the calendar year, but the Tax Reform Act apparently eliminated this.

The next document which I will direct the committee's attention to is a letter from Mr. Newman to Mr. DeMarco on page A-272. It is a

letter dated March 3, 1970, and as you will see the first paragraph

says:

Now that we are in 1970, and you have had an opportunity to study the revised reform tax bill of 1969, I wonder what the procedure will be with reference to the Nixon papers and other material?

And then he goes on to say in the letter that

Despite the bill, there are certain things that still would qualify as gifts, such as books, trophies, and other artifacts not covered by section 514 of the bill which relates to "papers."

The next event to which I would make reference occurs on March 27, 1970. On this date there is a telephone call from Mr. DeMarco to Mr. Newman. According to both Mr. DeMarco and Mr. Newman, Mr. DeMarco called Mr. Newman and told Mr. Newman that the President had made a gift of papers on March 27, 1969, a year earlier. Mr. Newman recalls Mr. DeMarco telling-and Mr. DeMarco does not recall this conversation specifically-Mr. Newman does recall it specifically and Mr. Newman says Mr. DeMarco said to him a gift of papers hal been made by the President on March 27, 1969, when the papers were delivered to the Archives. And Mr. Newman says that Mr. DeMarco asked him for a description of the papers, for a description of papers worth around $500,000. Mr. Newman says that he told Mr. DeMarco on the phone on March 27, 1970, that while he had examined papers in late 1969, November 1969, he had not at that point selected sufficient papers to constitute a gift of $500,000 and that additional papers would have to be selected.

Following that telephone conversation, Mr. Newman called Mary Livingston, an employee of the Archives, and there was a call between Mr. Newman and Mrs. Livingston and asked her to select certain additional papers, to go to where the papers were stored, to select certain additional papers and to phone him back with a description of those papers. Now, this all takes place on March 27, 1970.

Mr. WALDIE. Mr. Chairman, there is an error in the staff memo on page 12.

Newman told the staff that in his March 27, 1969, letter, and it should be 1970, should it not?

Mr. NUSSBAUM. That is correct. It should be 1970. On page 12 of the staff memo there is an error.

Mr. JENNER. Third line from the top.

Mr. NUSSBAUM. No, it is the line of the first full paragraph. It says "Newman told the staff that in his March 27, 1969, letter" and it should be 1970 letter.

Now, I am about to get to that letter actually. Mrs. Livingston, after Mr. Newman's call, now Mr. Newman called Mrs. Livingston and asked her to select certain additional papers and to phone a description of the papers to him. Mrs. Livingston did go into the room where the papers were kept, did select certain additional papers and did call back Mr. Newman and did give him a description and a listing of those papers. In turn Mr. Newman, according to Mr. Newman's statement, phoned Mr. DeMarco, telephoned to Mr. DeMarco a listing of the papers which he had examined in November 1969, and which now included a portion of the papers or the papers selected on March 27, 1970, by Mrs. Livingston, and on that same day Mr. Newman wrote

a letter to Mrs. Livingston and that letter is at page A-273 of the Joint Committee report.

Now, that letter, as indicated, is dated March 27, 1970. It is from Mr. Newman to Mrs. Livingston and it states, as the committee can see, that Mr. Newman enclosed a description of the 1,176 boxes of manuscript material which were designated as a gift by Richard Milhous Nixon in 1969. And then he states that

This is being done to be certain that my records corresponded with yours, and this material is being kept separated from the balance of the Nixon papers.

I have completed all my preliminary work on this material but will be returning soon to gather some detailed information I will be requiring. I shall advise you before coming East so that you can expect me.

Now, we asked Mr. Newman why he used the words in this letter "which were designated as a gift by Richard Milhous Nixon in 1969" and Mr. Newman told us that he wanted the letter to reflect what he had been told by Mr. DeMarco on that date and consequently included those words in the letter.

Now, on April 6, and I will try to speed along, on April 6 or April 7, 1970, Mr. Newman prepared and sent to Mr. DeMarco an appraisal document relating to the papers which were eventually taken as a gift of $576,000. Now, Mr. Newman included along with his appraisal, the appraisal documents, included an affidavit by Mr. Newman and that affidavit is contained at page A-282 of the Joint Committee report.

And if you turn to page 282 you will see Mr. Newman states that he appraised the papers, and now I am talking about the 1969 gift papers. He says he appraised the papers from the 6th through the 8th day of April 1969 and on November 3, 1969, November 17 through November 20, 1969, and December 8, 1969.

Mr. Newman now acknowledges that this affidavit was incorrect, that the first time he ever saw the 1969 papers at the Archives was on November 3, 1969. He explains by the way, that the affidavit was incorrect because his secretary was the one who prepared the affidavit and she looked at his records, his travel records, and other records and she saw that he was at the Archives in April 1969 so she assumed that he was there on that date and he was looking at the 1969 papers, and so he hurried, signed the affidavit and sent it off. He says later on when he took a closer look at his travel records he realized that he was not at the Archives to look at the 1969 papers in April 1969, but only the 1968 papers. But, in any event, Mr. Newman did prepare that affidavit and sent it off to Mr. DeMarco, and that affidavit was included as a part of the tax return.

Now, on April 6, 1970, there was also a telephone call from Mr. Newman and Mrs. Livingston at the Archives. And like some other things here, there is also a different version to some extent of their telephone call. Mrs. Livingston is an archivist at the Archives, an employee and recalls Mr. Newman telling her that the March 27, 1970, letter which he sent here in which he said as you will recall, he said describing the papers which were "designated as a gift by Richard Milhous Nixon in 1969" Mr. Newman said to Mrs. Livingston, according to Mrs. Livingston, that the letter would be the only acknowledgement of a gift the Archives would receive with respect to those papers. Mr. Newman disputes that he said any such thing.