Mr. WIGGINS. Well, we can debate that tomorrow, and that is a proper subject to debate in open session. But, I am sensitive to the propriety of making a demand upon a respondent to come and testify, which could put an unconscionable burden on him, one he should not be compelled to bear. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman? Mr. SEIBERLING. Would the gentleman yield? The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Conyers. Mr. CONYERS. Might I be recognized to add a comment in total disagreement to the gentleman from California? I appreciate his advising us about restraining ourselves, but there are those on this committee that may have a completely and totally different interpretation of the meaning of this, and have no intention whatsoever to consider themselves to be restrained, at the gentleman's invitation. We can go into executive session Mr. WIGGINS. I would only invite. Mr. CONYERS [continuing]. If there is something of such sensitive nature, but there are other theories that are as perfectly valid as those of the gentleman from California. Mr. SEIBERLING. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. CONYERS. Yes, I yield. Mr. SEIBERLING. I just wonder if I could ask the gentleman from California, Mr. Wiggins, whether he makes a distinction between a demand and an invitation? It seems to me that one other alternative would be simply to invite the President, and then it would be his choice as to what he would like to do. Mr. WIGGINS. Well, I think it is appropriate that the President be invited to do whatever he wishes. But, I personally think that the right way to do that is for the chairman, or perhaps through our counsel to extend that invitation privately to the counsel for the President, without making a public invitation, which carries with it Mr. SEIBERLING. I would say Mr. HUNGATE. Would the gentleman yield? Mr. BROOKS. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. Wiggins? Mr. HUNGATE. I have been yielded to, Mr. Chairman. Let me briefly say to the gentleman from California Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gentleman from Missouri. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Missouri. Mr. HUNGATE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would say to the gentleman from California I would simply like to see us agree if we can and act expeditiously if we can, and for that reason I would urge him to consider, if it does not impinge on what he wants to do, offering in the initial instance the exact interrogatories that have been offered by the Joint Committee on Taxation and I would think this committee ought to support that wholeheartedly. And after we see what goes with that, if that is taken care of, we could then proceed to the other point. Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Brooks. Mr. BROOKS. I wanted to make one observation in response to Mr. Wiggins' comments. At the advisory meeting yesterday, I would remind him that I specifically pointed out that if the President were to appear before this committee it would be on his own volition and that the Congress, this committee would not urge him to do so, would not pressure him to do so, but would tell him if he wanted to he would be welcome. And I pointed out then that we would not, I did not recommend any public statements about inviting him where there would be any pressure of a public invite and I just wanted you to know that your statement that this committee would demand his presence is just really not very responsive to what my idea was or what the idea was of anybody at that advisory meeting, and not anybody on this committee that I have heard except you. Mr. WIGGINS. Well Mr. BROOKS. I want to make that crystal clear. Mr. WIGGINS. OK. I do not wish to suggest even that the committee would do as I cautioned the members not to do. I do not suggest that. I merely am talking about something that is rather sensitive and it is the kind of statement that I feel like I have to make in executive session. I simply urge restraint on the part of the members, that is all. Mr. SARBANES. I have to confess that I am not really quite clear on the point that the gentleman is making. I mean, I understand that you are going to offer a motion tomorrow with respect to the furnishing of interrogatories. And do I understand that you are cautioning members of the committee not to make some argument of some sort with respect to that motion? Mr. WIGGINS. No. No. Mr. SARBANES. Which you think they should not do, is that correct? Mr. WIGGINS. No, that is not correct. Mr. SARBANES. What is the point the gentleman is making? Mr. WIGGINS. I am simply anticipating that any motion which goes on the obtaining of evidence from the President is likely to precipitate a debate that the President himself should set down before the committee and offer evidence in person, as distinguished from interrogatories and I think that lends itself to a prejudice which we ought not to indulge in. Mr. SARBANES. Well, with all due respect, I do not know that I would offer that argument, but it seems to me pertinent to the motion that the question is put forth, and if you are going to come forth with that motion, I do not see how anyone who thinks that that point of view is pertinent to dispose of that motion should be somehow precluded from a discussion this morning, or I mean this afternoon, from raising that point. Mr. WIGGINS. Well, obviously, my friend. I can only say this, that I cannot forestall any member from saying whatever he thinks is appropriate. I merely am expressing my concern, and it is the kind of concern ought to be expressed in an executive session. You, of course, are free to do as you wish. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hogan. Mr. HOGAN. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire what the status of the rules of confidentiality are now, after the adoption of that resolution today? Are they still in effect? The CHAIRMAN. The motion, as you know, that we adopted, stated that the rules of confidentiality still obtain until the publication. Mr. HOGAN. With that in mind, Mr. Chairman, I assume that tomorrow's session will be open? The CHAIRMAN. Tomorrow's session will be an open session unless the commitee decides otherwise. As the committee members know, this session was closed for one item, on the motion that was specifically addressed to the question of a possible release of executive session materials. Mr. DENNIS. Mr. Chairman? Mr. HOGAN. I intend to offer my motion tomorrow, Mr. Chairman, which may or may not-well, I can probably rephrase it in such a way that it would not violate the rules of confidentiality. But, to make it clear, I am sure that the members of the committee will have to refer back to it, and I think I can maybe handle it that way, but how I prepare it depends on whether we are opened or closed? Mr. WALDIE. Mr. Chairman? Mr. KASTEN MEIER. Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kastenmeier. Mr. KASTEN MEIER. Very briefly, and without beating a dead horse in terms of the issue, I think the gentleman from California, Mr. Wiggins, should be put on notice that his motion in and of itself necessarily introduces the question of obtaining evidence from the President, and in so doing, he is necessarily bringing into play the question of whether the President ought to be invited down here or whatever else. And as to the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Brooks' suggestion at the meeting of yesterday of some of the senior members of this committee, tacitly it was agreed that the President might be invited without publicity, and necessarily, therefore, I am suggesting that the motion of the gentleman from California will, I think, destroy the possibility that no publicity will be attendant to the option of inviting the President discreetly. Mr. DENNIS. Mr. Chairman? Mr. McCLORY. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire about the meeting tomorrow? What time will we be meeting? We are adjourning this meeting until tomorrow? The CHAIRMAN. We are adjourning this meeting and the meeting tomorrow will be at 10:30. Mr. McCLORY. Mr. Chairman. I move we adjourn. The CHAIRMAN. The meeting is adjourned. [Whereupon, at 4:04 p.m., the committee recessed, to reconvene at 10:30 a.m., Wednesday, June 26, 1974.] IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY Business Meeting WEDNESDAY, JUNE 26, 1974 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:50 a.m., in room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Peter W. Rodino, Jr. (chairman) presiding. Present: Representatives Rodino (presiding), Donohue, Brooks, Kastenmeier, Edwards, Hungate, Conyers, Eilberg, Waldie, Flowers, Mann, Sarbanes, Seiberling, Danielson, Drinan, Rangel, Jordan, Thornton, Holtzman, Owens, Mezvinsky, Hutchinson, McClory, Smith, Sandman, Railsback, Wiggins, Dennis, Fish, Mayne, Hogan, Butler, Cohen, Lott, Froehlich, Moorhead, Maraziti, and Latta. Impeachment inquiry staff present: John Doar, special counsel; Albert E. Jenner, Jr., special counsel to the minority; Samuel Garrison III, deputy minority counsel; Bernard W. Nussbaum, senior associate special counsel. Committee staff present: Jerome M. Zeifman, general counsel; Garner J. Cline, associate general counsel; and Franklin G. Polk, associate counsel. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order and the light photographers and cameras will please leave the room. The committee will come to order and the Chair would first like to announce, before recognizing the gentleman from Arkansas, that we have received from Mr. St. Clair a letter addressed to Mr. Doar in which he advises Mr. Doar on June 25 that he has received on behalf of the President four subpenas, and "As I advised you by telephone, the President is out of the country, will not return until approximately July 3, 1974, at which time I will see that the subpenas are brought to his attention. In light of this circumstance, it will not be possible for the President to review these subpenas and respond thereto by the date indicated thereon. Reponse will be made as soon as practicable following the President's return." And it bears the signature of Mr. St. Clair, and each member will have a copy of this distributed to him so that they will be accordingly informed. I recognize the gentleman from Arkansas, Mr. Thornton. Mr. THORNTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am prepared to offer a motion for the naming of witnesses to be called to present testimony to this committee. |