Mr. BIRCH. NO; they took it up themselves.

Senator FRAZIER. How many tracts of land did this company enter in that way?

Mr. BIRCH. I forget now what it amounted to. It did not amount to very much.

Senator FRAZIER. More than one?

Mr. BIRCH. More than one claim?

Senator FRAZIER. More than one 160-acre tract—yes.

Mr. BIRCH. I think so. I think there were several of them.

Senator FRAZIER. Were they all entered in the name of this company?

Mr. BIRCH. No; I think they were entered in the names of some of the members of the company.

Senator FRAZIER. The company used the members to make the entries?

Mr. BIRCH. I think so.

Senator FRAZIER. And obtained the patents, and they were turned over to the company?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. The company furnished the money to pay for the lands and the expenses necessary to conform to the laws of the United States in entering them?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. And then took them over?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. These men that they used to enter them were mere dummies?

Mr. BIRCH. No, sir; they were not. They were interested right in the property.

Senator FRAZIER. Interested in the property?

Mr. BIRCH. In the company itself.

Senator FRAZIER. Did they enter them for their own use?

Mr. BIRCH. Why, yes; they were interested in the company itself. They did not resort to any dummy entrymen. It was not necessary. They did not care to.

Senator FRAZIER. You said that the company furnished the money that was necessary to pay the Government for the properties and to perfect the entries?

Mr. BIRCH. I did.

Senator FRAZIER. Then, if these individuals were entering them in their own right, why did they not furnish the money?

Mr. BIRCH. Í do not quite get your question, Senator. These claims that have been located here, and which I mentioned, such lands as they took up afterwards, were taken up by people who were interested in the company; and I can not tell you now exactly the number of claims which they have taken up. It was only a few.

The CHAIRMAN. You are speaking now of the claims in the 3,200acre tract?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes; the 3,240-acre tract. They were located in the names of the Kennicott Mines Company.

Senator FRAZIER. You do not know, then, what proportion of the 3,240 acres was entered after the Alaska syndicate acquired the control of the Kennicott Mines Company?

Mr. BIRCH. I can not say at this time.

Senator FRAZIER. But there were a number of tracts?

Mr. BIRCH. No; there were not a number of tracts. There were several tracts.

Senator FRAZIER. If there were several, there would be a number, would there not?

Mr. BIRCH. Well, if you put it that way.

Senator FRAZIER. You do not know whether there was one or half a dozen or a dozen?

Mr. BIRCH. Not at this time; I could not say.

Senator FRAZIER. But there were several tracts afterwards acquired by the process which you have just described?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. And those thus acquired were turned over to the company, the Kennicott Mines Company?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. You think those entries were made by stockholders or directors interested in this Kennicott Mines Company? Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir; I did it myself.

Senator FRAZIER. You did it yourself?

Mr. BIRCH. I did it myself.

Senator FRAZIER. Did you make an entry there?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir; I think I am one of the locators.

Senator FRAZIER. You located a tract yourself? How much did you locate?

Mr. BIRCH. No; I was one of the locators.

Senator FRAZIER. How much did you locate?

Mr. BIRCH. I Could not tell you that at this time.

Senator FRAZIER. More than one tract?

Mr. BIRCH. I think so.

Senator FRAZIER. You did? The understanding was, then, that you were to turn them over to the Kennicott Mines Company when you perfected your title?

Mr. BIRCH. No, sir; there was no understanding. I simply went ahead and did it. I was manager of the company, and the land was open for location, and I simply did it for my own protection.

Senator FRAZIER. You did it for your own protection, or for the protection of the company?

Mr. BIRCH. The protection of the people I was working for.
Senator FRAZIER. That was the company, was it not?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. And when you perfected your title you turned it over to the company?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. Did you receive any compensation for it other than the expenditures that had been made?

Mr. BIRCH. I am in their employ.

Senator FRAZIER. You were in their employ?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. You were simply representing them, then, in making this location and acquiring this land?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. And when you had perfected your title and got a patent from the Government you turned it over to the company? Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir. I acted as their agent all the way through.

Senator FRAZIER. You acted as their agent. And did others acquiring property in like manner act as the agents of this company?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes; the names that were located-used in the location. Senator FRAZIER. They were simply employees and those interested in the company?

Mr. BIRCH. No; they were interested in the company.

Senator FRAZIER. Well, you were an employee, were you not?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir. Well, I was interested in the company, too-a stockholder.

Senator FRAZIER. And an employee?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. And do you not know what proportion of the 3,240 acres was thus acquired?

Mr. BIRCH. A very small portion. I could not say at this time. The CHAIRMAN. May I ask a question there?

Senator FRAZIER. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Birch, how could the 3,200 acres which involves, you say, 32 claims, or how many claims

Mr. BIRCH. Thirty-two lode claims and 18 placer claims.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the 3,200 acres?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir; 3,240.

The CHAIRMAN. In what other way except by individual entry could they be located?

Mr. BIRCH. In no other way that I know of.

The CHAIRMAN. So that the Alaska syndicate, or, rather, the Kennicott Mines Company and their predecessors, acquired their title, such as it may be, by the means of individual entry?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir. We complied with the law in every way. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I was not asking you about that. The only way, I take it, that you acquired any title that you may have was through individual entrymen, including yourself?

Mr. BIRCH. The way the Kennicott Mines Company obtained ownership to this property was through their purchase of stock of the Alaska Copper and Coal Company, which company purchased the interests of the original locators subsequent to that.

The CHAIRMAN. So that the title flowed from the original locators through the copper company to the Kennicott Mines Company? Mr. BIRCH. All the land which has any great value.

Senator DILLINGHAM. I want him to finish his answer at this point.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; go ahead and finish your answer.

Mr. BIRCH. After the purchase of the stock of the Alaska Copper and Coal Company by the Kennicott Mines Company, there was some land open for location around these original locations which I thought it best to take up for protection; and I went ahead and located it, and I used the names of the gentlemen interested in the company as their agent.

The CHAIRMAN. What persons or firms or estates comprised the Alaska Copper Company?

Mr. BIRCH. Mr. Norman Schultz and Mr. James H. Ralph; and I used my own name.

The CHAIRMAN. You were a stockholder in the Alaska Copper Company also?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the Kennicott Mines Company acquired the stock of the Alaska Copper Company?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the Alaska Copper Company got its titles. to these properties through individual entrymen?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. You say that the Alaska syndicate paid the Kennicott Mines Company about $3,000,000 for their properties? Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. And that, you say, was paid in cash?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. What is the value that you put upon that property?

Mr. BIRCH. The value of the property-that is, the amount of the ore blocked out, what we call in sight, after we have gotten in the transportation-amounts to about $6,000,000.

Senator FRAZIER. What proportion of the property have you blocked out in the way that you describe, so that you know approximately the value of the copper in sight?

Mr. BIRCH. We have done that by means of running tunnels, and

Senator FRAZIER. I say, what proportion of the 3,240 acres has thus been developed?

Mr. BIRCH. Oh! A very small portion.

Senator FRAZIER. A very small portion?

Mr. BIRCH. But it has been done at the place where the mineral shows.

Senator FRAZIER. Can you form any estimate as to the extent of the copper deposits other than that which has been thus blocked out? Mr. BIRCH. NO; that is all prospective.

Senator FRAZIER. Have you made any prospective investigation of that and developed it in any way?

Mr. BIRCH. No, sir. We only have hopes.

Senator FRAZIER. You have hopes? You have very large hopes, though, I suppose?

Mr. BIRCH. It is according to who looks at it. I am perhaps the most visionary one about it.

Senator FRAZIER. Have you more than the one mine that you have developed to such an extent that you can know what the property is, probably, in sight?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir. There is the Bonanza mine, and the Jumbo mine, and the National, and the Excelsior, and the Independence properties. They compose the Kennicott mines group.

Senator FRAZIER. And those four you have developed so that there is $6,000,000 worth of copper in sight?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. Are there any other mines on this property that have been tested or developed at all?

Mr. BIRCH. No, sir, except in a general way; but not developed except

Senator FRAZIER. Have they been tested to such an extent that you can determine whether there is copper in them or not?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes; they show indications on the surface.

Senator FRAZIER. So that in reality you have only developed a very small proportion of this copper field which your company has acquired there?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. But you have developed enough to know that you have $6,000,000 worth of copper in sight?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. You are unable to tell what the value of the copper on the remainder of the property is?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Mr. FRAZIER. But the indications are that it is very valuable copper property, are they not?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. You say your company was induced to change its terminus on the coast to Valdez because your attention was called to the coal field. What is the distance of the coal field from Cordova? Mr. BIRCH. About 95 miles. It shows on this map. Here is Cordova and here is the distance-95 miles.

The CHAIRMAN. May I ask a question right there so as to clear up things as we go along?

Senator FRAZIER. Certainly.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you call these the coal fields?

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are these the Cunningham groups?

Mr. BIRCH. The Cunningham group is included in this. I will show you a large map showing the entire field.

The CHAIRMAN. We will come to that in just a moment. I want to locate it on this map here. Where is the terminus on this map of your road-here [indicating]?

up

Mr. BIRCH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And it runs to there [indicating], and then goes the Copper River?

Senator DILLINGHAM. The record will not show anything definite when you say "here" and "there."

The CHAIRMAN. I am going to put the map in the record.

Mr. BIRCH. That is what we call Copper River Junction, at mile 38.

Senator FRAZIER. How far is that from Cordova?

Mr. BIRCH. Mile 38.

The CHAIRMAN. What is this, running down here to Cape Martin? Mr. BIRCH. That is a little portion that we built in there.

The CHAIRMAN. I mean this red line.

Mr. BIRCH. That is the proposed line.

Senator DILLINGHAM. But it is not built?

Mr. BIRCH. No, sir. The only part that is built is shown here, indicated in black.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any other yet built to the coal fields? Mr. BIRCH. Just this little portion down here which we built out of Katalla.

Senator DILLINGHAM. How many miles is that?

Mr. BIRCH. Six miles.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other coal fields except the coal fields in the neighborhood of what is called the Cunningham claims?