Senator DILLINGHAM. Do you remember how that was by the census of 1900 ?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. There was probably a greater proportion of men then.

Senator DILLINGHAM. My recollection is that there were 27,000 men and 3,000 women.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Yes; but the proportion is altogether different

now.

The CHAIRMAN. Even according to that, how do you account for the fact that in the whole district there were only between 9,000 and 10,000 votes cast, of which you had a plurality?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. The people simply did not go and vote. Of course the polling places were in the larger towns, generally; the population is scattered out probably for 15 or 20 miles, all around, and people do not go to vote for more than 5 or 6 miles. They do not take enough interest in it to go and vote at any great distance. I think that is the situation in all the western towns.

Senator FRAZIER. Do you think that would be so if they were granted some degree of self-government?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. I know it would not. If they had anything to vote for, I know they would go and vote. Our vote at the last election for Delegate was somewhat larger than it was at the preceding election.

The CHAIRMAN. Yesterday, if I remember rightly, Judge-if not, you can correct me I believe you stated that the last election, in which you succeeded, was an exceedingly warm one. There was the Democratic party; there were two branches, you said, of the Republican party; and there was the labor party.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. The labor party; yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And the contest was very vigorous. And yet, notwithstanding that, there were only between nine and ten thousand votes polled all together, of which you had a plurality.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. I do not remember to have said anything about the vigor of the campaign. I put some vigor into it myself and so did my opponents, but I do not think the people did.

The CHAIRMAN. I got that impression from your statements, from reading the platform, and the general conditions up there.

Senator FRAZIER. You think the vigor was very largely confined to the candidates, do you?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. I think it was largely confined to them.

I also have a clipping here from the Seward Gateway, one of our papers published up there, on the subject of a commission, and I should like to add it to my remarks later on.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. President Roosevelt, also, has spoken about this particular matter, and I want to call attention to his remarks as to the necessity for some form of government in Alaska.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. While you are looking for that, Judge Wickersham, let me ask if I understood you to say that the census of Alaska was taken last December?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. It was, Senator.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. Has it been compiled and the reports published?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. No, sir. I am filing protests against that census as vigorously as I can.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. On what ground?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. On the ground that it was taken in violation of the law.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. Do you mean that it was taken unfairly or taken out of time?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. It was very unfairly taken.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. Under what pretended authority was it taken ?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. I do not know.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. Did the enumerators just go up there and take it of their own volition?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. No; Mr. Durand is responsible for it. I talked with him about it. He told me that he was advised by his people up there in the Bureau of Education that the census of the Indians could be better taken in December than at any other season of the year.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it not the truth, Judge, that Mr. Durand was told that if a correct census was to be taken that was the best time of the year to take it, and that he therefore had to do that, and proposed to report the matter to Congress and get legislative authorization, the general census law concerning the United States fixing the taking of the census at a time when it was impracticable to take it in Alaska? Is not that the reason that Mr. Durand gave you for taking that census at that time?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Yes, sir; that is the reason he gave.

The CHAIRMAN. And it was true, was it not?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. No; it is not true. It is not true. The truth is that he could have taken the census in March and April, about the time Congress said it ought to be taken, very much better than he could at any other time.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you suppose his purpose was, Judge Wickersham?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Oh, I think he was misled by those people up there, who had in view only the purpose of counting the Indians. When a man gets into the Indian service he is apt not to see anything but Indians; and they advised him that it was better to take the census at that season than at any other time. I do not think he had any ulterior purpose in his mind. I think he knew so little about Alaska that he accepted whatever they told him, and did it; and I think that is the trouble, Senator, with many of these things.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Durand is an exceedingly careful man-one of the most careful men that any of us have ever known, and one of the most devoted to his duties. Judging from our experience with him, he is a man who is pretty apt to be thoroughly informed on a matter before he takes any steps regarding it.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. He is thoroughly informed on that matter, and he told me that the census was taken there without any specific authority of law.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; but I mean I should think he would be posted as to the best time for getting a complete census. He is a man of the very highest quality in that respect-a man who becomes a master of a subject before he acts.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Senator, the business men of Alaska, who have to take things into the interior, go out on the last boat generally. The people at Nome this year very largely came out in September. Many of our people in the interior, hundreds and hundreds of them, came out to go to the Alaska-Yukon Exposition in September. Thousands of people came out of the interior of Alaska to go to that exposition. They can not get back into Alaska, on account of the system of trails there, until January, February, or March. During the months of November and December a fierce rate war was being carried on in southeastern Alaska. Passenger rates were cut to the minimum, and hundreds and hundreds of people from there went down to Seattle and into the States. All of them will go back in a short time, and thousands of them are going back into the interior now over the trails. A greater number of people came out of Alaska this year, under those circumstances, than ever before. It is an annual movement, and it is one that is induced by the peculiar climatic conditions there and the condition of our roads and trails. In January, February, and March those trails are lined with hundreds and hundreds of people going in, and so it is now. The census, however, was taken in December.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. Judge, why do they come out of there at all?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. They come out of there because we have not the necessary supplies of various kinds in the country. If they want to do business of any kind in the States they have got to come out and take their supplies in and do all their business and go in over the trails in January, February, and March.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. What physical obstruction is there in the meantime?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Simply their inability to get over the country. Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. What does the obstruction consist of?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. There is no road there.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. Why is there not as much road there at one season of the year as there is at another?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Simply because it is such an enormous distance, and the conditions in the summer prevent crossing the country, which is easily traversed in the late winter and spring over snow trails.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. Is the distance any greater in January than it would be in June?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. No.

Senator CLARKE, of Arkansas. Is it not because the ground is covered with ice and snow and they can not get over it?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Why, no. That is, when they do get over it, Senator. We travel in that country in January, February, and March, when the snow is on the ground.

The CHAIRMAN. Then is not that one reason for taking the census at that time, when they can travel around?

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Yes.

Senator DILLINGHAM. In the summer they go over the trails. The CHAIRMAN. Then is not that the reason why they can take the census better then-because the census people can travel around? Mr. WICKERSHAM. In December? No.

Senator DILLINGHAM. If you will allow me just a moment; when we were there and Judge Wickersham was holding court at Rampart, Judge Mackenzie (who was the commissioner at Colford, I believe), came down and settled his accounts. He came 900 miles, and was twenty-nine days in making the journey.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. He came from away up above the Arctic Circle. Senator DILLINGHAM. But he followed the trails.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Now, gentlemen, I think I have said all I want to say to you about this matter. I am most earnest in objecting to the passage of this bill.

The CHAIRMAN. Before you go, there is one remark I want to make as chairman of the committee concerning the fish law that was referred to this morning, and the abolition of those taxes.

Senator HUGHES. And the cannery matter.

The CHAIRMAN. A great many of us on this committee were surprised at the statement that was made, and we at once looked it up. It turns out that it never went through this committee at all.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. No; I know it did not.

The CHAIRMAN. It went through the Committee on Fisheries.
Mr. WICKERSHAM. I looked that all up, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. In regard to the building of the so-called Guggenheim roads, if I remember rightly-I am sure that other members here do there was an application for several franchises before this committee, and among them that one. It was not favorably acted upon by the committee, however; and I think that road has since been built under the provisions of some general law.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. This committee was not concerned in either of those matters. They never went through this committee. That is all. Mr. WICKERSHAM. But the people are concerned. They are especially concerned in this bill, because if this bill passes the Guggenheims will have advantages which they can not possibly get in any other way, and which they could not get if the people of Alaska had a local legislature and any chance to legislate upon these matters themselves. It is not, Senator, that the people of Alaska do not want the Guggenheims to build that road, for we do want them to build it. I have been out over their road from Cordova up to the Copper River, and they are building a magnificent road. We want them to build that road. We want them to develop the country. We want the coal mines and the copper mines opened. We want them developed. But we do not want the whole country turned over to one great corporation merely to get it developed.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course no one here wants to interrupt the course of your remarks, Judge Wickersham. If you are through, we merely wish to have it understood that your statement concerning this proposed legislation-which is, as you have correctly stated, really the President's plan-that it would in any sense turn this country or any advantages in it over to the Guggenheims or any other interests, is not correct, but quite the reverse, according to the views of other people.

We are very much obliged to you, Judge, if that is all you have

to say.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. If this bill should pass, I think, of course, that the reverse would be true.

The CHAIRMAN. There are differences of opinion upon that matter. Mr. WICKERSHAM. You would have the people of Alaska bound hand and foot and the national resources of the Territory in the hands of a few people. I beg the committee not to pass it. The CHAIRMAN. We are very much obliged to you.

STATEMENT OF MAJ. W. P. RICHARDSON, U. S. ARMY.

The CHAIRMAN. We shall be very glad to hear any statement you have to make, Major Richardson. By way of introduction, I shall ask you to state your name and position in the United States Army. Major RICHARDSON. I am a major of infantry, United States Army. The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been in the service, Major Richardson?

Major RICHARDSON. I graduated from West Point in 1884.

The CHAIRMAN. What was your first detail to Alaska?

Major RICHARDSON. As an assistant to Capt. (now retired Gen.) P. H. Ray, to investigate conditions in Alaska, in 1897. The CHAIRMAN. In 1897?

Major RICHARDSON. In 1897.

The CHAIRMAN. Who detailed you there?

Major RICHARDSON. The Secretary of War detailed Captain Ray and authorized him to select a lieutenant to accompany him. He asked me to go with him.

The CHAIRMAN. How long did you spend there in that service at that time?

Major RICHARDSON. About twenty-five months.

The CHAIRMAN. Where were you then detailed?

Major RICHARDSON. About three months after my return to the States I was detailed as adjutant-general of the Department of Alaska, commanded by Gen. George M. Randall (now retired), and returned to Alaska the following June.

The CHAIRMAN. What was your next detail that put you in Alaska, physically?

Major RICHARDSON. Two years after that, during the second fall, I came back. The following summer, 1902, I was detailed to build an army post at Haines Mission, near Skagway, which work occupied me for two years and three or four months.

The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead and state your services under detail from the department from that time to this.

Major RICHARDSON. In January, 1905, I was ordered here to close my accounts. After about three months here I was detailed to take charge of the Board of Road Commissioners for Alaska which was provided for in a law of Congress approved January 27, 1905. I left Washington in March to take up that work, and I have been on it ever since.

The CHAIRMAN. So that beginning with 1897 you have been either detailed in Alaska physically or else in charge of that military district?

Major RICHARDSON. Yes; except for about a month, I have had no other duty for twelve years and a half.

The CHAIRMAN. You are, of course, very familiar with the country?