DISCUSSION REGARDING THE REVISION OF REMARKS AT

THE MEETINGS.

Mr. W. Worth Bean, St. Joseph, Mich.-Mr. Chairman, I noticed that Mr. Beggs requested the stenographer not to take down certain remarks he made during the discussion here this morning. It seems to me if the members felt that they might exercise that privilege, they would make many statements of a more or less confidential nature which would be valuable to the delegates.

Mr. Beggs-The Chairman, Mr. Vreeland and myself talked over this matter yesterday and we concluded that these discussions would be much more valuable to the large interests we represent were it known that confidential statements made in our meeting would not be published. I feel that our members many times do not give us the benefit of methods of operation and results obtained, for fear they might go to the general public and affect the interests of the individual members in their various localities. I may say that when the notes of the discussion come to me for revision, prior to their publication in the annual report, I take the privilege of editing the matter, and eliminating anything that might be objectionable, putting the matters in a little different form from what they may be given voice to in the meeting; and I believe that right should be exercised in the general interests of the business, and the interests we are here to represent.

Vice-President Ely-In closing the discussion on this paper, I desire to return to Mr. Emmet the-thanks of the meeting for the very interesting paper which he has prepared and for his kindness in coming here to-day to read it.

Concerning what should be expunged from the records, my idea upon that subject, based upon what I know of the rules of procedure of parliamentary bodies, is that what takes place has to be placed upon the record and this record preserved. If any member desires to have expunged from the record any statement made by him, that is up to the Convention. Unless the Convention otherwise orders, the remarks of members will be recorded, and the power of revision will extend to correc

tions and things of that kind, but not to suppressions. That would be my ruling.

Mr. Vreeland-Having had rather a broad experience in association and committee work connected with railroads for many years, I have found that the value of discussions to members of associations or committees was very much limited and restricted if the members did not feel that they could revise their remarks when sent to them by the stenographer. The New York Railroad Club, of which I am and have been president for a number of years, has a very large membership. It has very interesting discussions, which have only been made interesting and valuable the last few years by the adoption of the rule that members could freely revise their remarks. Men have made statements which were interesting to those they were talking to, upon the subjects of compound locomotives, air breaks and things of that sort, but these statements when printed have caused the speakers annoyance and trouble through a failure of the types to give the atmosphere which surrounds the delivery of them. It is but fair to the speakers that they should in all cases be afforded the privilege of revising their remarks before they are finally printed.

There are statistics connected with my work which I know would be of value to this Association. I am perfectly willing to give them to members of the Association, but, as they are not of general public interest, I would not care to have them printed in the record and distributed broadcast. It seems to me that proposition is an important one to the Association, and I am inclined to agree with Mr. Beggs and take issue with the ruling of the Chair.

Mr. G. Tracy Rogers-May I ask what has been the custom heretofore?

The Secretary-The custom heretofore has been that each speaker has had a copy of his remarks sent to him and he has been privileged to make such corrections as he desired.

Mr. Rogers-The report of all the remarks made at the meetings of the Street Railway Association of the State of New York are sent to the speakers to revise.

Mr. L. E. Myers, Peoria-As long as this subject is up, it gives me an opportunity to say something I have had on my mind for some time, and it is on the subject of restricted discussion, because of the publicity given to what is said in the meeting. I remember well, and I imagine Mr. Vreeland does, of a casual remark he made at the New York meeting-I do not recall the nature of it—but it was very properly taken down by the reporter, and on the following morning it appeared in the daily report of the proceedings, published by one of the street railway periodicals, prompted, no doubt, by a spirit of progress. That remark was picked up by certain papers in New York and made much capital of. I do not mean to raise any criticism of the stenographer or the enterprise of the trade journals which print these reports, but it does seem to me it would be proper courtesy that the report of the remarks should first go to the speakers before they are given to the wide world. I believe we would get much more general discussions of the subjects which come before us if the reports were not given for publication till they were revised by the speakers.

Vice-President Ely-This is an important subject that has been brought up. The Chair stated with regard to the records. of a meeting of this kind, and the Chair repeats and hazards his opinion of its correctness as a general rule, namely, that the proceedings and remarks of members in convention assembled, when not in executive session, are entered at large upon the journal of proceedings, and they stand as the record. It must be so; otherwise the records of the United States Senate or of minor legislative bodies could be changed at will by the members of those bodies who might say one thing one day in debate upon the most sacred treaties and contracts the United States could go into, and change it the next day after public opinion had gone the other way.

I have no doubt as to the correctness of the general proposition. But, of course, this matter is in the hands of the Convention. If the Convention desires the report of the proceedings to be withheld from the technical press, that is for it to

say. I am here to do the bidding of the Convention; but I should dislike to be put in the attitude, as Chairman of the meeting, of withholding these things from the press, without direction of the meeting. I might have to move out of town if I did so.

Mr. Mailloux-I beg to differ with the honorable Chairman, to the extent that the procedure referred to by Mr. Vreeland is undoubtedly the procedure in all technical societies. I happen to belong to several technical societies, and I have found it is always the practice in those societies that all contributions and discussions are revised before they are printed. Such is the custom in all scientific societies in New York City and in the United States generally, and as this may be considered in some respects a scientific body-it is certainly a technical bodyI think that the rule which is found to be an established practice among technical and scientific bodies might well be applied here. I therefore move that all contributions and discussions presented at our meetings be revised by the authors or participants before they are published.

Vice-President Ely-The Chair thinks, perhaps, it would not be well to take any hasty action in this matter. We will consider it, and in the meantime the stenographer will be instructed not to give anything for publication in the technical press which should not go out.

APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE REGARDING PUBLICATION OF DISCUSSIONS.

Mr. J. G. White-I think it would be well to have a committee appointed to consider this matter and report. I move that the Chair be requested to appoint a committee of three to consider this matter and report.

(Motion seconded and carried.)

Vice-President Ely-The Chair will appoint Mr. Mailloux, Mr. White and Mr. Beggs.

INVITATION FROM THE STREET RAILWAY ASSOCIATION OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

The Secretary read the following:

Binghamton, N. Y., Sept. 1, 1903. Mr. T. C. Penington, Secretary American Street Railway Association, Saratoga, N. Y.

Dear Sir:-The twenty-first annual meeting of the Street Railway Association of the State of New York will occur at the Yates Hotel, Syracuse, Tuesday and Wednesday, October 6th and 7th.

An unusually interesting State meeting is anticipated. Papers upon practical street railway subjects will be presented and topics of general interest discussed. In addition to the interesting and profitable features of the meeting a splendid program of entertainment (including the annual dinner on Tuesday evening, October 6th) has been arranged by the local committee.

All in attendance (including Street Railway and Supply Men) at the Twenty-second Annual Meeting of the American Street Railway Association are respectfully invited and urged to attend the State meeting at Syracuse and participate in the benefits and pleasures thereof.

It is the aim of the officials of the Street Railway Association of the State of New York to make the twenty-first annual the most largely attended, interesting and profitable meeting in the history of the association.

Yours respectfully,

G. T. ROGERS,

President.

Vice-President Ely-Gentlemen, the Chair, as a member of the New York State Association, on his own behalf, and on behalf of Mr. Rogers, Mr. Connette and Mr. Vreeland, heartily seconds that invitation, and hopes it will meet with general acceptance on the part of the gentlemen present. The meetings of the State Association are of unusual interest. We sometimes have large exhibits and the same character of business is transacted at our meetings as here, and much interest is manifested in the proceedings.

APPOINTMENT OF COMMITTEE ON RESOLUTIONS.

Vice-President Ely--I will appoint the following gentlemen as a Committee on Resolutions to report at this Convention: W. Worth Bean, St. Joseph, Mich.; C. Loomis Allen, Utica, N. Y.; Thomas Hawken, Rockland, Maine.