Mr. GARRETT. That is, there is no place for him to be appointed to go out and raise a brigade of cavalry and be covered into the service?

Secretary BAKER. No, sir.

Mr. CALDWELL. What is the place for a Spanish War soldier to volunteer?

Secretary BAKER. It is to have a statement of his military experi ence on file so that it can be considered in determining whether he will be invited to take a commission from civil life in any of the forces provided here. He can of course join the Officers' Reserve in a rank commensurate with his previous experience.

Mr. CALDWELL. If he writes a letter and volunteers his services and attaches to it a statement of his military record, that could be verified from the military records in the department, but if he refers to a foreign military record he should send with it, I presume, some certificates showing what his military record was?

Secretary BAKER. I do not think we would be particularly exacting in the matter of having any verification of his statement. If a man had served in a European army as a major and had conducted certain military operations we would be very glad to know of it and to give him such place in the Army as would be commensurate with his services. We might want to send for him and see him and talk with him.

Mr. GREENE. Mr. Secretary, I have two questions I would like to ask which do not relate to matters of detail or preparation and perhaps might be deferred. The first one is rather in the form of a suggestion: Inasmuch as this committee will be expected to work in such intimate relation with the War Department and its policy throughout this emergency, would there be objection on your part to directing that such orders, circulars, and other similar papers that are issued from time to time by the War Department and distributed among its chief officials might also be sent to the individual members of this committee; in other words, to extend your mailing list to that extent so we may be kept in daily touch with what the department is doing and then we would not only be better informed individually, but be more responsive to your needs.

Secretary BAKER. I think that is a very I will ask The Adjutant General to do it. orders which it is not desirable to have

reasons.

desirable thing to do, and That, of course, excludes made public for military

Mr. GREENE. Yes; of course. I had in mind such orders as would keep us in touch with the general situation in the department so far as the public is concerned.

Secretary BAKER. That seems to me to be a very desirable thing. Mr. GREENE. Now, this question is suggested because it may help us to answer some Members on the floor. Newspapers recently have carried the information that the banking concern of Morgan & Co. had offered to place a credit of $1,000,000 to the Government in order to tide it over in the purchase of Army supplies because of the failure of the Regular Army appropriation bill in the Sixty-fourth Congress. I understood that the Government had not accepted that offer, but I have since seen editorial and other newspaper references indicating that that information is not general. Do you, Mr. Secretary, care to put anything into the record in regard to that matter?

Secretary BAKER. The offer was $1,000,000 and was a statement which I understand to have been made by Mr. J. P. Morgan because of certain contractors dealing with the New York quartermaster depot finding it difficult to finance their operations on warrants which were not to be paid until Congress should have made further appropriations. It was not sought by the department and, while a very generous action on the part of Mr. Morgan, has not been acted upon, because the Treasury Department has been able to effect the necessary arrangements to maintain the credit of the department during the interim.

Mr. WISE. Mr. Secretary, I would like to ask one question with reference to the raising of the 500,000 men which it is provided by this bill shall be raised by conscription and distributed among the different States according to population. As I understand, the first step is to have a registration of all young men between the ages of 19 and 25. To illustrate, take the State of Georgia. Suppose you wanted 10,000 men from that State and suppose there should be 40,000 on the registration, how or by what method are you going to say which ones shall go and which ones shall stay?

Secretary BAKER. The jury wheel that is, select them as juries are selected; put their names in a wheel and select them according to lot.

Mr. WISE. Why would it not be really better and why would it not be advisable, if they have out of the 40,000 10,000 who want to go, to allow them to volunteer and go?

Secretary BAKER. For the double reason that it is frankly going to the volunteer system with whatever defects that system has; and in the second place, those who did not volunteer would be put under some humiliation while those who did go would probably be the most spirited youths of your State and ought not to be first taken to be sacrificed.

Mr. WISE. Do you not believe a man who really wanted to go and was anxious to go would make a better soldier than the man who really went in half-heartedly or did not want to go or for some reason felt like he did not want to fight at this time?

Secretary BAKER. I do not think I would like to say that. I think some of the bravest men in the world and some of the men who have done the best work have been men who shrank from conflict rather than those who courted it.

Mr. CALDWELL. Then you would not be taking the best men. Secretary BAKER. We would not under those circumstances. Mr. GORDON. Mr. Secretary, do you recall the date, approximately, when the present conscription law was passed in England? Secretary BAKER. I do not.

Mr. GORDON. Since last August, was it not?

Secretary BAKER. I do not know.

Mr. GORDON. However, whatever legislation was passed on that subject was the result of more than two years of experience. I am asking this in reference to the question asked by Gov. Shallenberger. If the present act in England represents the experience and information afforded by more than two years of actual war, might it not be of value as expressing the judgment of the English people upon this subject?

Secretary BAKER. I tried to answer that before, Mr. Gordon. I think that England has gone step by step from one experience to another, and each time it has taken a step it has taken it from the place it last stood rather than at the beginning adopting a policy which it would have adopted if it had foreseen the size and length of the conflict.

Mr. CALDWELL. You said, Mr. Secretary, a few moments ago, that this was your bill; that is, you had dictated its outlines; and you said. you were willing for these men to come up here and testify about their knowledge on this subject, but that you wanted to state the policy of the department. Where did you get your information on this proposition? You did not get it out of thin air. [Laughter.] I may be laughed at, and it may sound foolish, but I have never been able to think of anything without having something to base my thoughts on.

Secretary BAKER. I am now 45 years of age, and for the last year of my life

Mr. CALDWELL (interposing). Maybe I will learn something in the next three years. I have not gotten to that stage yet.

Secretary BAKER I do not want to suggest that the difference between us in age makes any difference in that respect, but I am trying to account for the fact that I had an idea on the subject. I am 45 years of age, and for the last year of my life I have done nothing but study these problems, and this particular problem, and I think it would not be improper for me to expect of myself, when I come to consider this problem, some ideas on the subject.

Mr. CALDWELL. Certainly; but would you have better ideas than men who have been studying this problem from a military point of view for the past 40 years instead of one year?

Secretary BAKER. If from what I have said before I have been understood to claim the credit of all the wisdom there is in this bill, I hope that will not so appear in the record. Every idea I have had has been canvassed with my associates in the Military Establishment. Mr. KAHN. And you so stated.

Secretary BAKER. And so far as I know have had their approval and I have been benefited by their counsel at every point and instructed every minute.

Mr. CALDWELL. But in your statement as to what they could testify to here, you seem to limit them.

Secretary BAKER. I am not trying to limit them at all; quite the contrary. They are perfectly free to speak on any subject they choose, but when they all have spoken I want it understood that the War Department speaks by the Secretary and not by any individual officer who may appear here.

Mr. KAHN. Mr. Secretary, just one question in addition to what Mr. Gordon asked, about the action taken by the English. For fully one year before the law of conscription was passed over there the British Cabinet was considering the matter. Of course, they have a different form of government from what we have. The ministry probably was afraid at one time to submit it because they thought it would not meet with the approval of the people at that time; but so far as the Government of England is concerned, they had in mind,

according to the press dispatches that we read, the matter of legislation in favor of conscription fully one year before it was put into effect; is not that your recollection?

Secretary BAKER. Even if that were so, that would not militate against the analogy Mr. Gordon sought to draw. He was rather referring to the spirit of England than their particular government, as I understood him. I think both statements are accurate.

Mr. GREENE. Mr. Secretary, by way of emphasis, where did the phrase "muddling through" originate? Was not that exactly in line with the statement you have made that they have gone from experience to experience?

Secretary BAKER. I suppose no one book represents the spirit of England in as dramatic a form as "Mr. Britling," and "Mr. Britling" has drawn the picture that will last as long as literature, I think, of a nation "muddling through."

Mr. HULL. Mr. Secretary, do you expect this committee to adopt this plan as you have drawn it, or is it all right for us, acting as a committee with a majority governing, to try to improve the bill as our mental processes dictate to us?

Secretary BAKER. This is the bill I believe in and is the bill I recommend. I hope you shall pass it in this form.

Mr. HULL. But we live in a republican form of government, and we are the highest committee on this proposition, and we have to account to the people. Have we not the right to improve the bill? Mr. GORDON. Oh, of course, we have. I will answer that question myself.

Secretary BAKER. Mr. Hull, there is no suggestion in this bill that any compulsion shall be exercised by the Secretary of War on this committee.

Mr. HULL. And it would be perfectly loyal to do that?

Mr. GARRETT. In other words, Mr. Secretary, you do not propose to draft this committee first?

Secretary BAKER. No.

Mr. MORIN. Is not the question, Mr. Secretary, of what troops will be sent to Europe first, when it becomes necessary to send troops, one that should be left to the judgment of the General Staff or the officers charged with conducting this war successfully?

Secretary BAKER. I think it must be. I think the Constitution would require it even if we tried to require otherwise.

Mr. GORDON. The President is the commander-in-chief?

Secretary BAKER. Yes.

Mr. SHALLEN BERGER. Has any contract been made yet for these made-over Enfield rifles?

Secretary BAKER. No, sir.

Mr. SHALLEN BERGER. That is simply in contemplation?

Secretary BAKER. Yes.

Mr. Dent, there is one change in the language of the bill which you have which I will ask Gen. Crowder to make, so when you have your committee print it can be included.

Mr. GREENE. May I suggest that in whatever form the change is communicated to the committee, the change be included in the stenographic record.

Secretary BAKER. The intention is to suggest adding to section 2 the words beginning " provided" and reading as follows:

Provided, That the President is authorized to raise and maintain by voluntary enlistment or draft, as herein provided, special and technical troops as he may deem necessary and to embody them into organizations and to officer them as provided in the third paragraph of section 1 and section 8 of this act. Thereupor., at 1:30 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until Monday, April 9, 1917, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS,
Washington, D. C., April 9, 1917.

The committee met, in executive and confidential session, at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. S. Hubert Dent, jr. (chairman), presiding.

STATEMENT OF HON. NEWTON D. BAKER, SECRETARY OF WAR, ACCOMPANIED BY MAJ. GEN. HUGH L. SCOTT, CHIEF GENERAL STAFF; BRIG. GEN. ENOCH H. CROWDER, JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL; MAJ. P. E. PIERCE AND MAJ. DENNIS E. NOLAN, GENERAL STAFF CORPS-Resumed.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, when we finished Saturday we had gotten down to the proposition of the cost of this proposed legislation, and I notice the estimates that were sent in by the Treasury Department ask simply for a lump sum. Have you the details of that?

Secretary BAKER. The details of that Maj. Pierce has, and it will be very much better for you to get it direct from him than from me; but as a preliminary to that I will say to the committee that I very urgently recommend that the appropriation be a lump sum, so that we can have the greatest elasticity and apply it from one thing to another.

Mr. GORDON. What is the amount?

Secretary BAKER. The amount is about $2,900,000,000, and Maj. Pierce has the figures here; but I want to say this, in explanation of the lump-sum appropriation: In operations of the kind we are now going into it is impossible with accuracy to foresee an exact subdivision of the various sums of money that we will have to spend. The prices of material are, of course, varying. Attempts to secure favorable and uninflated prices are being made with varying success in different directions, and very many new kinds of things are being constantly suggested to the department to be done. You gentlemen will not be in session and it will not be possible for us to come to you and to get flexibility in these appropriations after you have adjourned, and for that reason it is my hope you will yield to the lumpsum appropriation, having in advance, not as controlling but as explanatory, the details which the department at present estimates make up that sum.

The CHAIRMAN. Somebody asked about the amount of the lump sum. It is $2,932,537,933.

Secretary BAKER. Substantially $3,000,000,000.