tor. But this was not all; for thefe very gentlemen themfelves when in office drew up and ratified the definitive treaty of peace, in which a reciprocal commercial treaty was one of the ftipulations, and they gave fome pointed instructions to their Ambaffador (the Duke of Manchefter) to this very effect. How could this conduct be deemed confiftent? Was he not warranted from it to conclude, that they suffered themselves to be folely actuated by a principle of party, and that it was impoffible for his right honourable friend (Mr. Pitt) to bring forward any treaty, or any material measure, with which they would fuffer their fentiments fo thoroughly to coincide as to become followed by their full concurrence, and to which they would give their countenance and fupport? Mr. Young faid, that he could not avoid fincerely complimenting a right honourable gentleman (Mr. Burke) on the very able manner in which he had preffed on the House a juft eftimate of the great fuperiority of our manufactures over thofe of France, as well as the advantages of capital, whilft in competition for the market-but when he ftated the great copartnership bufinefs of England, that concentration of landed and commercial wealth in one great capital, founded in the fyftem of Banks and Bankers, who, being the depofitaries of the landed rents, and general property of the fubject, and converting thofe funds to pupofes of discount, made all the riches of the kingdom fubfervient to trade, he could not but confider his conclufion at variance with such a pofition, when he afterwards faid, that, by this treaty, we fhould admit France into partnership, and a beneficial share of this capital, to the immediate lofs of Great Britain. The fact was, that if the first data of the right honourable gentleman were true, (and fo he believed them to be) the commercial treaty would afford an immediate balance of trade in favour of England, and that balance of trade, adding to the national capital, would give fresh spur and vigour, and leave annually the competition more hopeless on the fide of France, at leaft to the extent of fuch balance, whether 500,000l. more or lefs, we should not have France for our partners, but be the Bankers for that and more. As to what fell from a right honourable gentleman (Mr. Flood) on the preceding Monday, relative to the value of our home market, as taking nine tenths of our manufactures, he fhould beg leave to urge, that occafions might offer in which the remaining tenth part might be of equal value almoft with the other nine; for a marine armament, or, in other words, a navy, was not to be fupported but on a commercial bafis; that is, on an extenfive fyftem of exports and imports, and in this too our capital might ferve us to naval purposes, as it might induce orders on credit, which France

Sir Grey

Cooper.

France could not give, and thus take the carrying trade from her. An honourable gentleman (Mr. Wynham) had mentioned the treaty in the light of an innovation, which should never be admitted on mere fpeculation, and without motives of neceffity. But, it was to be feared that the neceffity of pufhing our trade to its utmoft extent, was abfolute and Atrong. The returns of our poors rates, probably 3,500,000 (or about) a fact which he adduced, and left with the gentlemen of the country to determine; namely, that from the confolidation of farms, the faculty of general migration to the capital, opened by our improved roads, and from other caufes, the agricultural ground had not its former bafis of employ for our labourers, and that a fubftitute must be found for their fupport, that not being (taking collection numbers) paid and fuftained by the hand as before, we must find manufactures and commerce in greater extent than heretofore to feed and fuftain them, and to keep up population and the fpirit of industry.

Mr. Young concluded with fome obfervations on what had fallen from Mr. Wyndham, as to the experience and years. neceffary to constitute the statesman, and fit him for such an enterprize as the prefent. He contended (and brought Mr. Wyndham himself as an example) that a man might be early an orator, and early a statesman, fixing his principles, and applying them to the general furvey of ftates, and of their policy; but that other arts of a statefman did indeed require age; fuch as the arts of conciliation, and of corruption founded on an intimate correspondence with all kinds of men, and a deep investigation of the vices and foibles of the human heart, and which could gain men over, not only against their principles, but even against their interefts.

Sir Grey Cooper contended, that the point of the address now under confideration, by the force of the words in which it was expreffed, became an irregular and unparliamentary proceeding, contrary to the rules and orders of that Houfe in paffing bills, and not fupported by any one good precedent which bore upon the point in queftion. It was an unneceffary ftep in the order of proceeding for any other purpofe but that of preclufion. He defired the House to confider in how different a manner their ancestors proceeded in the cafe of the commercial treaty of Utrecht. That treaty was laid before the Houfe by a meffage from the Queen. A Committee of the whole House was appointed to take the 8th and 9th articles into confideration. After a long debate in that Committee, on the queftion that the Houfe be moved for leave to bring in a bill to make effectual the 8th and 9th articles of the treaty of commerce, the question was carried by a very large majority, greater than on any vote on the pre

fent

fent treaty. The bill was brought in and read a first time at the distance of a fortnight from the vote in the Parliamentary Committee. There was an interval of a week between the first and fecond reading of the bill. Petitions now came in from all quarters against the treaty. And the Committee on the bill fat for many days to hear the petitioners by their counsel against the treaty. The report from this Committee was received and agreed to. But on the question that the bill with amendments be engroffed, it was carried in the negative by a majority of nine. No addrefs was presented to the Queen till after the rejection of the 8th and 9th articles. And then the address was to thank her Majefty for what she had done in the treaty of commerce with France, by laying fo good a foundation for the interefts of her people in trade.

Mr. John Scott faid that he muft beg leave particularly to Mr. John animadvert on the fpeeches of his two honourable and learned Scott. friends (Mr. Anftruther and Mr. Adam), and to contend against the apparent abfurdity of the pofition's laid down by the former, refpecting the inftability of our manufactures, which he inftanced in the cotton branch. Mr. Scott infifted that the inference which his honourable and learned friend would fain draw from that argument was, that because it had existed only twelve years it would now be ruined. There was not the smallest fhade of difference between the language and import of the prefent addrefs, and that which had been voted during the difcuffion of the Irish propofitions; the one faying, that after mature deliberation the Houfe had adopted, and would take steps to carry into effect, certain refolutions; and the other declaring, that after ferious deliberation, &c. &c. Mr. Scott then took a general view of the conduct of Oppofition in the bufinefs of a commercial negociation with France, and infifted that it was manifeft fuch a treaty was in their contemplation when in office. He was happy that the meafure was now effected in a manner which promifed this country a very great acceffion of wealth, and which held out the moft liberal encouragement to her artizans, whose industry, perfeverance and skill, joined to their prodigious capital, muft ever insure them the fuperiority. For his own part, he confidered the address as fignifying no more, than that those gentlemen who were of opinion that the measure which was the subject of it had been fufficiently difcuffed, and fully underftood, fhould exprefs by their vote that they approved of its tendency. He could fee no reafon for poftponing the bufinefs, left the present opinions of the manufacturers might, in the course of time, undergo a revolution. Fnftead of delay, the measure, in his opinion, called for prompt decision.

Sir James Erfkine answered, that he muft beg leave to point Sir Jame out the egregious mifreprefentations which the honourable Erskine,

gentle

Mr. Powys.

Mr. Fox.

gentleman who fpoke laft had been guilty of, in ftating the words of the addrefs onthe Irifh propofitions, and that which the House was now called upon to vote. He urged a number of arguments against the treaty, and particularly against (what he termed) the giddy and unprecedented mode of proceeding which was adopted for hurrying it to a conclufion.

Mr. Powys preffed his marked difapprobation of the precipitate manner in which (he contended that) it was meant to bind up the Houfe from the exercife of their most important and fundamental privileges, the right of difcuffing and deciding on every measure in the various ftages in which it was ufually prefented to their confideration.

gen

Mr. Fox reprobated the whole proceeding of that day, as in the highest degree unbecoming that Houle, and contrary to its ancient and established forms of proceeding. An honourable and learned gentleman had directed a good part of what he advanced upon that day, to the glaring perversion of the argument of an honourable and learned friend of his, and on that perverfion the honourable and learned gentleman had grounded all his reasoning, with a view to render his honourable and learned Friend's argument ridiculous. The honourable and learned gentleman had ftudiously avoided repeating the words of the addrefs on the Irifh propofitions, because the words were fo different in their nature, and bore fo oppofite a conftruction to that which the honourable and learned tleman had laboured to put upon them, that the bare correct recital of them would have proved, that his reasoning was false, and that the reasoning of his honourable and learned friend had been found and undeniable. With regard to the address, of all the practices of Adminiftration, it was the moft alarming, the most dangerous, and the most unconftitutional. He would not, indeed, go fo far as an honourable and learned friend of his had gone and agree, that if a fingle precedent could be found upon the Journals, for fuch a proceeding, he would relinquish the point, and vote for the addrefs. There might be, and there undoubtedly were, various bad precedents upon Journals in a great many inftances. There might poffibly, therefore, be a precedent for the prefent proceedings, but if there fhould be a precedent to be found, he would venture to fay, that it must be a precedent to be reprobated, and not a precedent fit to be made an example. Mr. Fox reminded the House that the Addrefs went to deprive the Houfe of its legiflative capacity, to preclude debate, and to render null and void all thofe forms which the wifdom of their ancestors had provided, as the parliamentary cautions and guards againft furprize, and for the purpose of preventing any measure of a legiflative nature from being hurried through the Houfe, without ample deliberation and ample difcuffion. Had the business

the

been

been brought on in the ufual way, they fhould have enjoyed full time to know the option of the Manufacturers, and to difcufs the fubject again and again, before they came to a decifive vote upon it. In all cafes of trade, the form of the Houfe obliged the matter to be firft fubmitted to a Committee of the whole Houfe, where refolutions were neceffary to be moved, and confequently where the matter was in the first inftance open to debate. The refolutions, when agreed to, were reported to the Houfe, and on the Houfe's agreeing to the report, a bill was ordered in. Had that been the mode of procecding adopted in the prefent cafe, inftead of a premature addrefs, the Houfe would have had fix ftages to have difcuffed the fubject in, before they came to their ultimate vote. The bill must be read a first time, it must be read a fecond time, committed, reported, engroffed and read a third time and pas fed; at every one of thofe feveral ftages, the Houfe would have found an ample opportunity of debating deliberately; whereas what was the cafe then? They were called on to vote an address which tied up their hands, which pledged the House to support whatever bill might be brought in, and precluded all future debate and all future difcuffion. This was an ill omen of our future intercourfe with France; it was a bad beginning; it was adopting and copying the French conftitution at the fame time that we were about to take the French commerce. It was commencing our intercourse with France in a moft inaufpicious manner, and it was not more ungraceful than unneceffary, becaufe the coming to a vote upon the address would not accelerate the conclufion of the proceed. ings on the commercial treaty; it would not forward them one hour. Would it not, then, on every account, have been more wife, more grave, and more becoming that House, to have proceeded in the ufual way by bill, and after they had gone through all the fix ftages, through which a bill muft neceffarily pafs, would it not have been better, in every fenfe of the word, to have then voted an addrefs, and gone up to the Throne with it, informing His Majefty, that his faithful Commons had complied with his royal requifition in his fpeech to Parliament, and agreed to fupport the commercial treaty with France. Should the addrefs unfortunately pafs (which he flattered himself it would not) he must in that cafe, heartily wish that the House had been in a Committee, if it were only to fave the Speaker from the fhame and difgrace of going up to His Majefty and presenting an address. What fort of a fpeech could the right honourable gentleman poffibly make, fhould he have the difagreeable task of attending at St. James's with the addrefs?-With what an aukward feeling muft the right honourable gentleman fay, that His Majefty's faithful Commons had deftroyed their own forms, and groffly violated VOL. XXI.

S s

the