Senator MORSE. Do you know whether or not as president of the Southern Railroad he ever met with the negotiating committee at any time at the White House prior to seizure?

Mr. BENDETSEN. I do not know, sir. I have no information on that. I have had no part in the negotiations.

Senator MORSE. I merely asked if you knew.

Mr. BENDETSEN. Col. R. H. Smith is head of the region that has its headquarters at Roanoke. He is president of the Norfolk & Western Railway in civilian life. He is a Reserve colonel in the Transportation Corps and was called to duty for that purpose. He is head of the Pocahontas region, as we call it.

Senator MORSE. Is his railroad, of which he is president, also one of the parties to this dispute?

Mr. BENDETSEN. Yes, sir; one of the seized transportation systems. Senator MORSE. Do you know of your own knowledge whether or not prior to his being assigned to this job, and as president of his railroad, he took any active part in trying to negotiate a settlement of this dispute by participating in any of the meetings of the negotiating committee?

Mr. BENDETSEN. I have no knowledge that he did.

Senator MORSE. But he is assisting now in the Government operation of the railroads.

Mr. BENDETSEN. That is correct. He is on full time active duty as a colonel in the United States Army.

Senator MORSE. But he was on Reserve at the time the dispute started and he was called specifically to help the Government operate the railroad of which he is president, which railroad is a party to this dispute?

Mr. BENDETSEN. That is right.

Senator MORSE. Who is the next one?

Mr. BENDETSEN. I didn't call him or he wasn't called to operate his road. He was called to duty as a Reserve colonel who we felt

Senator MORSE. I am fully aware of all those distinctions.

Mr. BENDETSEN. The Allegheny region, the director is Col. Roy B. White, who is president in civil life of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad. Senator MORSE. Is that railroad a party to this dispute?

Mr. BENDETSEN. That is right.

Senator MORSE. Do you know of your own knowledge whether or not at any time Mr. White, the president of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, ever personally participated at the White House level in an attempt to settle this dispute through the negotiating committee? Mr. BENDETSEN. I have no knowledge of that.

The eastern region, headquarters at New York City, the regional director is Col. Gustave Metzman, president of the New York Central Railroad in civil life.

Senator MORSE. The New York Central Railroad is also a party to this dispute, is it not, Mr. Secretary?

Mr. BENDETSEN. That is right.

Senator MORSE. Is your answer the same as to whether or not you know of your own knowledge as to whether or not this railroad president ever participated at the White House level in an attempt to settle this dispute before seizure?

Mr. BENDETSEN. Yes, sir; the same answer as I gave before. I have no knowledge that he did.

Senator MORSE. But he now participates in assisting the Government in operating the railroad, along with other railroads, of which specific railroad he happens to be president.

Mr. BENDETSEN. That is correct.

Senator MORSE. As a Reserve officer.

Mr. BENDETSEN. That is right.

In the southeastern region we have a subregion at Atlanta. The head of the subregion has the title of assistant regional director, and he is Maj. Carl Godsey. He is a Reserve Transportation Corps officer, and in civil life his normal occupation is a motive power supervisor on the Norfolk & Western Railroad.

Senator MORSE. Is the Norfolk & Western Railroad a party to this dispute?

Mr. BENDETSEN. Yes, sir.

The central western region at Chicago, the regional director is Col. John D. Farrington, who in civil life is president of the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific Railroad.

Senator MORSE. Is the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific a party to this dispute?

Mr. BENDETSEN. Yes; it is.

Senator MORSE. Do you know of your own knowledge whether this railroad president ever attempted to settle this dispute at the White House level acting through the negotiating committee prior to seizure?

Mr. BENDETSEN. I have no knowledge. I might say that I didn't know any of these gentlemen prior to the time they came to active duty, and I think I should have added that in the beginning.

Senator MORSE. I understand that. I think that is clear.

Mr. BENDETSEN. The next region is the San Francisco subregion of the central western region, and the assistant regional director in charge of the subregion is Lt. Col. Roy A. Davis. He is a professional soldier, and if he had a civil-life connection, I don't know what it was prior to the time he entered service in the Army. He is Transportation Corps officer.

The northwestern region is headed by Col. Robert S. McFarlane, headquarters at Minneapolis. He is president in civil life of the Northern Pacific.

Senator MORSE. The Northern Pacific is a party to this dispute?
Mr. BENDETSEN. Yes, sir.

Senator MORSE. I imagine your answer is the same, that you do not know of your own knowledge as to whether Mr. McFarlane ever attempted to settle this case at the White House level by acting through the negotiating committee prior to seizure?

Mr. BENDETSEN. That is right, sir. I have no knowledge.

Senator MORSE. He at the present time is one of the railroad presidents that is assisting the Government to operate the railroads that have been seized by the Government which are parties to the dispute, of which his railroad is one?

Mr. BENDETSEN. That is right, sir.

The southwestern region, headquarters at St. Louis, is headed by Col. Clark Hungerford, Transportation Corps, Reserve. He is presídent of the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway Co. in civil life, and it is a party to the dispute and has had its transportation system seized, and I would make the same answer to the questions you have put.

1

Senator MORSE. If you will do that in each case you will save my asking the same questions, because I want to get that in the record as to each one of these railroad presidents.

Mr. BENDETSEN. As to whether he ever participated in undertaking to settle the dispute at the White House or elsewhere, I have no knowledge.

Senator MORSE. Personally and directly, you have no knowledge. Mr. BENDETSEN. I have no knowledge in a direct and personal way or on any other basis.

Senator MORSE. You are free to say they all participated through their own negotiating committees.

Mr. BENDETSEN. I would assume so, sir.

Senator MORSE. I know that answer, and I know the answer to that, too, and we will get to that in due course of time.

Mr. BENDETSEN. The Houston subregion is a part of the southwestern region. The assistant regional director in charge of that subregion is Lt. Col. Howard D. McDonald, Transportation Corps Reserve on active duty. In civil life I note that he is a stationmaster, Chicago & Northwestern Railroad. That road is a party to the dispute and had its transportation system seized. I do not know whether he has ever participated in the sense that you have asked as to the others. Senator MORSE. I am only interested in the railroad presidents as to whether or not they participated.

Mr. BENDETSEN. That covers the key personnel at the top levels. I would like to go down the list, if you would like to have me do so, as to the others involved.

Senator MoRSE. Yes.

Mr. BENDETSEN. In my own office my personal assistant who I would like to say for the record performs his duties at all times with superior efficiency is a lieutenant colonel. He is a professional soldier of the Regular Army, Lt. Col. R. B. Bush. I have a relatively small office, I would say, as offices go here, and the personnel there of course help as needed on this. So you might say they are part time.

In the Army staff I have the assistance of all sections of the staff, of course, but primarily the office of the Judge Advocate General; of the Department counsellor; of the Assistant Chief of Staff G-3, who as you know is in charge of operations; of G-1 who is in charge, as you know, of personnel, when I need personnel ; of G-4 where matters of supply are concerned or communications are required; and in varying degrees those offices, which are large offices of a departmental character. On a part-time basis their people are assistants in varying degrees. The Chief Signal Officer, in charge of Army communications, has of course also assisted.

Then the Chief of Transportation-I have already described General McIntyre, who is an Assistant Chief of Transportation, assistant to General Heileman. The executive officer, who also gives full time to this is Col. Thomas Fuller. He was on duty in the Army before this began. As far as I recall, he has been on extended duty for a long time, although I don't think he is a Regular officer. He is a Reserve officer on extended active duty.

Senator MORSE. Do you know of his civilian position when he was a civilian?

Mr. BENDETSEN. In civil life he was executive general agent of the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad. I do not know how long ago that was, but that was his connection in civil life.

There are six other officers in the Chief of Transportation Office who give around-the-clock service, who man the telephones and stay on post of duty. We have a small group who are there 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Between Colonel Fuller, Lieutenant Colonel Davis, Lieutenant Colonel Knutson, Major McGinty, Capt. Thomas E. Grenshaw, Lieutenant Lukens, Lieutenant Bullard, and three civilians, one of whom is a GS-4, while the other two are GS-3, we make up our full-time nucleus in the office of the Chief of Transportation. At the regional offices, there is an assistant regional director at each of the regional offices themselves. They are lieutenant colonels. In civil life each of them appears to be in the railroad business. I will go down the list for you, sir.

Lt. Col. Wayne Smith is the assistant regional director at the eastern region under Colonel Metzman. He is a trainmaster and supervisor of track of the Illinois Central Railroad. In each of the regional headquarters, the regional director and the assistant director, if they are in the railroad business, are not of the same roads, so if we have a matter respecting the railroad of, say the regional director, we deal with the assistant director only on that.

At the Alleghany region the assistant director is Col. John J. Clutz, a Reserve Transportation Corps officer, on active duty. He is an assistant chief engineer of the Pennsylvania Railroad. He serves under Colonel White, of the B. & O. We have talked of Colonel White.

At the Pocahontas region it is Lt. Col. Andrew M. Hansen, a reserve transportation officer on active duty. He is the assistant superintendent of safety of the Atcheson, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad.

At the southeastern region the assistant regional director is Lt. Col. Frederick K. Kendall, Transportation Corps Reserve Officer on extended active duty. In civil life he is the superintendent of terminals of the Reading Railroad. He serves under Colonel Norris, whom we have discussed already, and who is president of the Southern Railroad. The central western region, which is headed by Colonel Farrington, the assistant regional director is Lt. Col. Edwin K. Hanly, also a Transportation Corps Reserve officer on extended active duty. In civil life he is the chief mechanical engineer of the Pennsylvania Railroad.

With the northwestern region, the assistant regional director is Maj. George P. Hayes, Jr., Transportation Corps Reserve officer, on extended active duty. He in civil life is the superintendent of bridges and buildings of the Pennsylvania Railroad.

With the southwestern region, as the assistant regional director serving under Col. Clark Hungerford at St. Louis, who is president of the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway, we have Lt. Col. Warren W. Weidner. He is a National Guard officer on extended active duty. In civil life, he is a general agent of the Pennsylvania Railroad.

The executive officers in each of the regions I noted as I went down the line, are all professional soldiers with one exception-that exception being in the eastern region, Capt. Gerald J. McKenna, a Transportation Corps Reserve officer, in civil life is an operations officer of a steamship line. I am sorry I do not know which line, but I will be glad to find out.

Senator MORSE. Will you supply that for the record?
Mr. BENDETSEN. Yes, sir.

(The information subsequently supplied is as follows:)

Capt. Gerald J. McKenna was employed from July 1925 to August 1927 by the American Hawaii Steamship Co. and from January 1928 until December 1948 by the New York & Cuba Mail Steamship Co.

Mr. BENDETSEN. The other executive officers are all professional, full-time soldiers. The remaining staff officers are mixed. We have a legal adviser who in some cases is a reserve of the Judge Advocate General's Department on active duty, and in some cases a professional soldier. The public information officer's post is mixed also. I would be glad to go down the list, but for the most part they are partly full-time professional soldiers. I notice two civil-service employees that are on extended active duty, one radio and television producer, one journalist, and so on.

The regional and subregional offices are channels of communication. They are required to submit daily reports and often, where necessary, hourly reports.

Senator MORSE. May I ask you a question about personnel first, and then I am going into a line of questions on the operations themselves. What is the total staff? What does it all add up to?

Mr. BENDETSEN. The total full-time staff that I could count as full time are 55. Part-time staff would be very extensive in number and would be into several hundred. I don't have an accurate account of that and wouldn't want to create any false impression on it. Sometimes it involves a large number of people.

Senator MORSE. The 55 would include the railroad presidents?
Mr. BENDETSEN. Yes, sir.

Senator MORSE. Do you have in that group of full-time employees any officers of any of the railroad brotherhoods involved in this dispute?

Mr. BENDETSEN. Not that I know of.

Senator MORSE. Do you know whether or not any of the officers of any of the railroad brotherhoods were invited to assist the Government in operation of the railroads under the Executive order? Mr. BENDETSEN. When

Senator MORSE. I mean as staff members.

Mr. BENDETSEN. As staff officers? Not that I know of. At the start of the operation I was in touch by letter and by telephone and also telegraph with heads of the two operating brotherhoods then involved, who were very cooperative, and they each designated someone here to represent them who later called on me. I have not had very much contact since then, but we had a discussion at that time at which I said my office would at all times be open and I trusted that each of the representatives would call on me and I would like to call on them in case of need, but there was no request that I know of of the type you have described: no, sir.

Senator MORSE. The fact is, Mr. Secretary, that the Government is employing in positions high personnel of the railroads parties to dispute, but it is not employing any of the high personnel of the brotherhoods.

Mr. BENDETSEN. That is right.

Senator MORSE. Who in the Government advises the Government on labor-relations problems during the course of seizure?