Parliament he is irresistible. Part of the secret of his power is that he is not often in his place in Parliament. He never makes himself too cheap. He delegates as much as possible the answering of questions to his Under-Secretary, and when he does answer interpellations he is sparing of words and still more sparing in the imparting of information. He holds himself aloof from the rank-and-file. He is not hail fellow, well met! with any but his narrow circle of intimates. Lord Haldane worships him as the greatest Foreign Minister since Pitt, and the Westminster Gazette is his faithful, not to say obsequious, organ. Sir Edward Grey himself said, some years ago, that "of all personal considerations there was nothing stronger with him than the desire to work with, co-operate with, and keep in touch with Lord Rosebery." But this desire, like many other aspirations of Sir Edward Grey, has long since ceased to be a governing principle.

A POLITICAL WHITE OF SELBORNE.

The one thing to which Sir Edward Grey has always been faithful is his love of country life. When I first met him, many years ago, I told him I had always heard he might some day be Prime Minister if he were not so passionately devoted to salmon-fishing. To have been a second White of Selborne was much more in accordance with his natural sentiments than to be the gramophone of the bureaucracy of the Foreign Office. He is happier in the fields and beside a trout stream than he is in the Foreign Office or in the House of Commons. An enthusiastic naturalist, he probably enjoyed nothing so much of late years as the excursion he took with ex-President Roosevelt into the New Forest for the purpose of observing the birds of that as yet unspoiled region of woodland Britain. He is fond of cricket and an expert player of lawn tennis. By heredity he is a Whig. The Greys of Northumberland have always been Whigs, although the present Earl Grey, late Governor-General of Canada, became Unionist when Home Rule split the Liberal Party. Sir Edward Grey is a Radical by impulse, but his staying power is weak.

HIS VIEWS ON WOMAN'S SUFFRAGE. He was devoted to his wife, whose tragically sudden

death has not prevented the persistence of her influence over her husband's mind, for he is one of the staunchest advocates of Woman's Suffrage in the Cabinet, which is hopelessly divided on the question. In 1892 I asked him, "Are you in favour of Woman Suffrage and of making the law quite colour-blind as to sex, so that women may take any position they are qualified to fill, whether in Church or State ?" Sir Edward Grey answered Yes," without any qualification. But when it comes to put this heroic resolution into practice, I confess I have my doubts whether Sir Edward Grey will stand to his guns. NEXT PRIME MINISTER?

I asked one of his colleagues in the Cabinet a short time ago, "If Mr. Asquith were to be killed to-night by a taxi-cab, who would be his successor ?" He answered instantly, “On that subject there can be no doubt. The next Prime Minister would be Sir Edward Grey." I replied, "I would have said so once, but to-day he would have no chance against Mr. Lloyd George." My friend answered, "In the country, perhaps, but not in the House of Commons. In the Cabinet I do not think he would have one vote excepting his own." Mr. Asquith fortunately is in no more danger of being killed by a taxi-cab than any other citizen of London, so that the question of the succession does not arise.

THE VICES OF HIS VIRTUES.

In conclusion, Sir Edward Grey is an honest man, who, if surrounded by men equally honest in the embassies and in his own department, would probably be the best Foreign Minister available. But, conscious as he is of his own ignorance of foreign nations, and ill-informed as he has repeatedly shown himself to be in the vital facts of important questions with which he has to deal, he relies upon his entourage, which is anti-Liberal, anti-German, and anti-Democratic. He is sincerely desirous of peace, but too timid to do anything to maintain it, if the doing of it exposes him to the remonstrances of Sir Francis Bertie and the veiled menaces of France. He is incapable of intrigue, but he is liable to be politically blackmailed by those who are unscrupulous enough to take advantage of his weaknesses and his virtues.

I

BREAKFASTED with the Chancellor of the Exchequer at 11, Downing Street, on Thursday morning, December 14th, 1911. It was a pleasant party; the only other person present not belonging to the family circle was Mr. C. P. Scott, of the Manchester Guardian. The Chancellor, who had made a great speech in the House of Commons the previous day in defence of his Budget, was late in coming down, and we were nearly through breakfast when he arrived.

THE TOUGH AND WIRY WELSHMAN,

I was amazed when I saw him. He has just passed through perhaps one of the most trying ordeals that any British Minister has had to pass through. During a long and protracted Session he has had to fight his Insurance Bill, clause by clause, through the House of Commons. The Bill was one of innumerable details, involving the social life of the people at every turn. It was bitterly assailed by the interested classes, each of which fought for its own hand. In addition to his Parliamentary labours he had been continually receiving deputations, interviewing recalcitrants, negotiating difficult points with his adversaries, and defending his policy on the platform. To work sixteen hours a day through the whole of the Session which is now closing is a record of which Mr. Gladstone's heroic conduct of the Irish Land Bill through the House of Commons affords the only parallel. Imagine then my amazement on finding Mr. Lloyd George, instead of being worn to a shadow, in more robust health than I had ever seen him before. He was in the highest spirits, and instead of losing had put on weight. Mrs. Lloyd George was the subject of general congratulation on the care which she had taken of her husband.

"Oh, you Welsh are tough!" said I. "I think that insurance companies should make a reduction of fifty per cent. on the premiums on all Welsh lives, because of the demonstration which you have afforded of their superior vitality. But now to business."

THE MAGNA CHARTA OF THE POOR.

"The National Insurance Bill," said Mr. Lloyd George, "is the second great legislative measure by which we have attempted to grapple with what Mr. Carlyle called the condition of England' question. For years past statesmen of both parties have recognised the urgent need of dealing with the amelioration of the condition of the people. There has been a spirit of vague discontent, the national conscience has been stirred from time to time, but hitherto our efforts have been more or less limited to sporadic voluntary efforts, with occasional attempts at legislative action. Pledges were given at election after election, but were never fulfilled. But now, seeing its opportunity at last, the Liberal Government has taken off its coat

and is wrestling in grim earnest, and in its shirt-sleeves, so to speak, with the great evils from which the people suffer.

"Our first measure, of course you know, was the Old Age Pensions Act, which secures for every necessitous old man and old woman in the three kingdoms on their seventieth birthday a pension of 5s. a week. At the beginning that measure was regarded with considerable distrust. It seemed too good to be true to many of the old people, who at first would stand outside the post office hesitating to go in for their 5s., fearing that 'somebody was making fools of them.' It was not until a year had passed that they fully realised the fact, which seemed to them almost a bewildering miracle, that as long as they lived they would receive 5s. a week from the National Exchequer without being asked to pay one penny in return. After the first year, however, the popularity and success of that measure was so firmly assured that at the last General Election the worst accusation that anyone could bring against a candidate was that he was in favour of tampering with that first great article in the Magna Charta of the poor."

"How much does it cost now?" I asked.

"Thirteen millions sterling per annum. That was our first contribution towards the solution of the great problem that confronted us. The National Insurance Bill is the second."

THE COST OF INSURANCE.

"How much is that going to cost?" I asked.

"The National Insurance Bill," said Mr. Lloyd George, "unlike the Old Age Pensions Act, is on a contributory basis. That is to say, whereas the Old Age Pension is paid to any person who arrives at the age of seventy, without his having made any contribution to the Pension Fund other than that of having paid rates and taxes during his long life, the Insurance Bill is an attempt made by the State to compel workmen and employers to co-operate in a great insurance scheme for the benefit of the workmen. The State

simply puts a premium, so to speak, upon the contributions of the employers and employed. That is to say, the workman pays 4d., the work woman pays 3d., and the State adds 2d. So far as the workman is concerned he pays 4d. a week and is credited with 9d., which he takes out in benefits."

THE BENEFITS SECURED.

"Would you recapitulate these benefits?"

"Certainly," said Mr. Lloyd George; "the whole thing can be put in a nutshell. The working man pays 4d. a week and the working woman pays 3d. a week. In return they are guaranteed free medical attendance when they are ill, 10s. a week for twentysix weeks when they are off work owing to ill-health if they are men, or 7s. 6d. per week if they are

women, and if their malady is incurable and they are permanently incapacitated from earning a living they receive 5s. a week until they are seventy years of age. Then they will ordinarily become Old Age Pensioners and draw their 5s. a week like other Pensioners. In addition to this there is a maternity benefit of 30s. for women at the time of their greatest need, and special provision is made for the cure of sufferers from consumption. What the Bill aims at doing is to secure medical attendance for every man (and woman) in the land, to secure that he has ros. a week when he is laid up by temporary sickness for half a year, and 5s. a week if he is permanently incapacitated.

THE CAMPAIGN AGAINST CONSUMPTION.

"We have voted this year £1,500,000 for the beginning of a great campaign against tuberculosis. This great White Plague has never before been grappled with systematically by the nation. We regard this as a campaign that is as much one of national importance as the resistance of a foreign enemy. Provision is also made for maintaining these sanatoria, each of which will be a kind of base of operations against tuberculosis, and we are sanguine that before long we shall have done much to abate one of the greatest plagues which destroy the happiness, impair the physique, and threaten the life of our working population."

"The doctor, sick pay, the maternity benefit, and the campaign against consumption-are these the four heads of your Bill?"

WAR AGAINST THE SLUM OWNER.

"These are four of the heads, but there are others, and one of the most popular of them, and that which is most frequently overlooked, is the provision which it makes for an organised campaign against slums." "Possibly you do not put it sufficiently in the limelight," I ventured to remark.

Mr. Lloyd George replied, "That is not my fault. Public attention has been pre-occupied with one sensation after another; outbreaks of foreign war, risks of war nearer home, revolutions in China, etc., etc. There has been an endless succession of exciting incidents to distract public attention; hence the debate upon that provision of the Bill which deals with slums failed to attract the attention which it will undoubtedly command. There are no greater contributory causes of ill-health than insanitary dwellings. Insanitary dwellings have hitherto defied all the efforts that have been made to deal with them. Housing Acts have been passed, stringent regulations have been made, but hitherto all our best endeavours have been baffled by the simple fact that the people who own the slums, the local builder and the owner of small house property, have been able to dominate the local authorities who have been charged with the administration of the sanitary acts. The Medical Officer of Health is employed by the local sanitary authority, and it is sometimes as much

as his place is worth to make things unpleasant for the owners of slums who control his salary and are masters of the situation. In my Bill for the first time we have a fair chance of laying the axe to the root of this upas tree."

THE PLAN OF CAMPAIGN.

"Would you mind explaining," I said, "how the insurance of working men against ill-health affects the slum-owner?"

"Nothing is more simple. The administration of the Act is placed in the hands, primarily, of Health Committees, which are in future to be known as Insurance Committees, including the representatives of the Friendly Societies and medical men who are charged with the administration of the Act and the distribution of the insurance benefits. If, in any area, the percentage of sickness rises above the average, so that the people resident in that area are drawing a disproportionate amount of money in the shape of sick pay, an inquiry will be made into the local circumstances, and should it be found that the excess of demand upon the fund is due to slum property, then the owners of that slum property will be liable under the Act for paying the difference of what may be regarded as the average normal charge on the fund, and the excess brought about by the insanitary buildings from which they are drawing

revenue.

HOW IT WILL BE CARRIED OUT.

"This is tremendous," I said; "but how on earth did you get that clause through ?"

"Get it through ?" said Mr. Lloyd George. "I got it through without a division. It was one of the most interesting debates in the discussion in committee. Sir A. Cripps proposed to strike it out on the ground that it was a monstrous burden upon owners of property. It was asserted that the existing Sanitary and Building Acts were quite sufficient, that local authorities had ample powers, and that there was no need for legislation. I was challenged to produce evidence of the existence of the evils which I alleged. I produced and read out to the House a list of local authorities in England and Wales as instances where they had failed to put into execution the powers with which they were vested. I was challenged as to my authority, and replied that the facts were taken from the reports of the Local Government Board. Lord Charles Beresford made one of the best speeches in the discussion. He began "What I want to know is this: Does this Bill place the owners of slum property under discipline?" "Yes," I replied. "Then I am for it," said Lord Charles Beresford. The result was that Sir A. Cripps withdrew his amendment and the clause passed. Thus we have now a self-acting check upon the existence of slums. Observe how simply and effectively it works. The Insurance Committee, which has to superintend the payment for medical advice and sick pay, finds that, say in Little Peddlington, twice as

This

much money is drawn from the funds, in proportion, as from other districts in the neighbourhood. is registered automatically in the shape of charges upon the fund. Now, when this automatic registration of excess reaches a certain point an inquiry may be obtained. After it is proved that the excessive ill-health is due to insanitary property the owners of that property have either to put that property in order or pay the excess charge upon the insurance fund due to the condition of houses from which they have been drawing rent."

"A tremendous measure of centralisation," I said. "Yes," said Mr. Lloyd George; "but the local authorities, left without effective control, have neglected their duty. Take the case of Harrogate, for instance, a fashionable watering place in the North of England, which I publicly pilloried for its neglect in certain instances to enforce the regulations of the Health Committee. There was frightful outcry, but I have no doubt that the result will be that Harrogate will set its house in order, and what Harrogate is doing all insanitary places will have to do when the Act comes into operation."

RELYING ON THE FRIENDLY SOCIETIES.

a

"Our scheme is unlike the German scheme as it is based entirely upon the voluntary co-operation of the people. It is a great measure for the promotion of voluntary co-operation. The administration of benefits is left in the hands of the people themselves. Instead of undertaking, as in Germany, the direct administration of the scheme, the responsibility is thrown upon the shoulders of local committees, including representatives of Friendly Societies, upon whose shoulders rests the administration of the Act. We found the whole of England covered with a network of Friendly Societies, the majority of which were actuarially insolvent, even upon their own balance sheets. We say to them: 'We will entrust you with the task of administering this Act. We will subsidise you to the extent of twopence a week per head on condition that you collect the money from employers and employed, and that in three years you satisfy the State that you are actuarially sound. If we find that this is not the case you will either have to put a voluntary levy upon members in order to make good the deficiency, or your members will not be able to receive full benefits: it will be either increased contributions or diminished benefits.' If the Act is properly administered, that is to say, if malingering is checked and proper supervision is taken, it ought to be perfectly possible for any Friendly Society to pay the benefits to its contributors. If, however, a society is negligent, then that society must pay the penalty, and its members must either increase their contributions or sacrifice part of the benefits which would otherwise accrue to them. Thus you see the scheme is not only one for providing that every working man may be guaranteed against starvation when he is out of work, but it is a most tremendous engine for developing local re

sponsible administration of the self-helping kind, and at the same time it provides an instrument for the destruction of slums."

IS THE LAW POPULAR?

"What of the opposition to the Bill ?" "The opposition to the scheme proceeds almost entirely from the articulate classes-that is to say, from the people whom you meet at dinner, the people who write in newspapers, the people who have seats in the House, and, in general, those who have to contribute but who do not draw any benefits. Hence a great outcry, engineered for party purposes or to make a newspaper sensation. But I was very much impressed by the experience of my colleague, Mr. Birrell, the other day. He went down to Manchester and met at dinner the usual people whom a Minister of the Crown would meet at dinner-well-to-do people in good circumstances who looked more or less askance at a measure which placed increased expenditure upon them without any corresponding direct benefit to anyone except their employés. He found them tepid in their enthusiasm, to say the least, and if they were not actually hostile they were critical and unsympathetic. After dinner he went down to a great meeting in the Free Trade Hall. The great building was crowded to the ceiling. Mr. Birrell was somewhat depressed

and somewhat anxious as to the popularity of the Bill, and with some fear and trembling he approached the subject by saying: Now we come to Mr. Lloyd George's Insurance Bill!' He was never more impressed in his life than when he found the whole audience spring to its feet and cheer and cheer again He had never witnessed such a general and prolonged outburst of enthusiasm for any measure. I think you will find it so throughout the country among the people who will benefit. There will, of course, be a great deal of friction, but the people who benefit will soon realise the advantages which the scheme secures for them, and after that you will hear little of unpopularity."

THE MISTRESSES' AGITATION.

"What about the servant girls' agitation?" said I. "That was the hollowest bubble that has ever been pricked. I was immensely impressed by the deputation of mistresses and servants which waited upon me on the subject. I have never had a deputation in my life which impressed me more with its directness, its sincerity, and its admirable common sense. There was not a superficial word spoken by any woman there. One lady made a speech of two minutes, in which she went right to the heart of the thing in a manner which commanded my admiration and respect. The servant girls were extraordinarily intelligent, and although some of them came primed against the Bill, I had no difficulty whatever, by a course of question and answer, in convincing them that in producing this measure we were looking after their own interests, and the interests of the servants was to support the Bill."

NO PASSIVE RESISTANCE POSSIBLE.

"Do you think," said I, "that there will be any passive resistance offered to the Bill?"

SO.

Mr. Lloyd George smiled. "No, I do not think

Any employer who refuses to pay his weekly contribution renders himself liable to a civil or

criminal process. Moreover, employers will soon realise as they have realised in Germany-the great advantages that accrue to them from the increased efficiency and contentment of their workmen, and I confidently anticipate that here-as in Germany-the scheme will win their cordial support."

THE PENALTY ON SWEATERS.

"You have mentioned the limit of £160 a year, beyond which benefits do not apply," I said, “and you have special terms, I believe, for people earning very low wages?"

66

Yes," said he, " that is a kind of fine, as you might call it, upon those who pay starvation wages. Where the wages are not 9s. a week the workman pays nothing and the employer pays more. Where the wages are 15s. and under, the employer pays a heavier contribution. This operates against sweating and tends to raise the miserable condition of the very poor."

THE RECEPTION OF THE LAW.

"Do you expect much hostility to the Bill when it comes into operation?"

same

"No," said he ; "what is going to be done is this: all the Friendly Societies are going to conduct a canvass of the country for the purpose of securing the greatest number of members. Each canvasser will become a trained missionary, as it were, who will expound the advantages obtained under the Act in order to secure the adhesion of the greatest possible number, for the societies have a natural ambition to do as much business as possible and secure as many members as possible. When the first payments begin it is possible there may be a certain amount of friction, but after the scheme once gets under operation-after two or three years-the thing will happen with this as with Old Age Pensions. The people who opposed it will try to hide their record by the vehemence of their support that they would never, never, never, no never! interfere with the benefits secured for the working classes of this country by the Insurance scheme. You see," said Mr. Lloyd George, "what Mr. Disraeli said was very true: There are two nations in every country, the rich and the poor. The rich are the articulate class, they command the means of making their complaints audible throughout the world; the poor are condemned to silence. Any measure like this that is introduced provokes the outcry of the articulate. It will be some time before we can

ascertain the real sentiment of the people towards the measure, but I have no doubt as to the ultimate result."

WHAT IT WILL COST.

"In cash," said I. "How does it work out in cash to the National Treasury?"

"Old Age Pensions, I told you, cost 13 millions a year. The contribution of the State to the insurance fund, in full operation, which I reckon will be about 18 years, will amount to about 8 millions sterling. That is to say, in our two measures of social reform the State distributes 21 millions a year among the poorer classes of the community, which thus develops self-respect and accustoms them to the responsible exercise of civic duties."

"I have not referred to your Unemployment scheme," I said.

"That is another branch," said he, "on which a good deal might be said. We have limited it at present to the engineering and building trades, which are subject to fluctuations. We shall see how it works. If it works well there, we may extend it."

"I see complaint is made against you that the introduction of the Bill was not preceded by preliminary investigation."

"There could not be a greater mistake," said he. "I have made most exhaustive investigation, and studied the operation of insurance as it exists in Germany."

"What is the difference?" said I.

"The first great difference is that the State in Germany only contributes to the Old Age Pensions and Sick Insurance three millions a year. The rest is entirely made up by contributions from the employers and the employed. In Germany, too, the administra tion is entirely in the hands of the State, and it is cumbrous and costly. What we claim for our scheme is that not a penny of the fund subscribed by the men goes towards paying salaries or expenses of State officials. These charges will be borne by the Treasury. The fund will be entirely administered by the workmen themselves. After paying all the benefits I have mentioned, there will still be two millions a year left to supply different benefits to be chosen by the workmen themselves through their societies."