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in Alaska and at other places, we had quite largely, the Navy had groups who were engaged in intercepting Japanese radio messages, but that was done largely for the purpose of locating ship movements, or locating headquarters from which you might deduce what the actual ship movement was.

Now, that was going on throughout the Pacific. That was the naval means of following as closely as they could Japanese shipping, possibly their submarines, certainly their larger naval craft.

There, then, is a confusion in one's mind as to how much of what you knew was that and what you might have known that was the elaboration of the deciphering of these messages which [3158] constituted the basis of magic.

The messages on which the magic is based were collected throughout the Pacific. I should imagine, though I am not the best witness on this, that the largest portion of the collection occurred in the Philippines because of its proximity to Japan and its ease of interception, but it sometimes occurred, as in the instance I believed the record will show on the fateful message which gave the hour 1 p. m., December 7, it was intercepted in the Puget Sound region rather than out in the Philippines or out in Hawaii.

So in my mind, in trying to reconstruct my knowledge of the data, coming to that period just prior to December 7, there is a confusion as to how much I knew that pertained to these radio intercepts that located the movement of vessels, how much that I knew of arrangements to intercept the Japanese messages rather than to decipher them and how much I knew regarding the actual deciphering which I know

about now.

Senator FERGUSON. Yes; but did you know in 1941, in the summer of 1941, that General MacArthur had the means of obtaining the magic as far as the State Department and various other agencies are concerned, the so-called purple matter?

General MARSHALL. I do not know as I knew it then, sir.
Senator FERGUSON. That he was able to get it direct

by means of cryptoanalysis in the Philippines?

[3159]

General MARSHALL. I know that now, sir. I do not know to what degree I knew it then.

Senator FERGUSON. Well, can you place yourself back in 1941 to know now whether or not you knew it then? I am trying to find out what you knew here in Washington of what he knew there?

General MARSHALL. Yes. I am unable to say that, sir. I rather think I know now what the naval arrangement was in the Philippines as to deciphering through what they called the purple machine of magic, at that source, but I do not know how much I knew about that then.

Senator FERGUSON. But that would be an important matter and would be called to your attention in 1941, would it not?

General MARSHALL. If it were known by General Miles, and I am not positive whether or not he knew it.

Senator FERGUSON. Well, I do not want to pass on the evidence of General Miles.

General MARSHALL. I am telling you

Senator FERGUSON. As to whether or not he knew that General MacArthur had this means.

[3160]

point

General MARSHALL. Well, my reference to General MilesSenator FERGUSON. But I would like to have you, or if someone can for you, to get General Miles' testimony on that and show it to you, rather than have me pass on it. General MARSHALL. Well, I have not read it, sir. Senator FERGUSON. It is 12: 30, Mr. Chairman.

I do not know.

The CHAIRMAN. It is 12:30, and the committee will recess until 2 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 12:30 o'clock, a recess was taken until 2 o'clock of the same day.)

[3161]

AFTERNOON SESSION-2 P. M.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.
Senator Ferguson will proceed.

TESTIMONY OF GEN. GEORGE C. MARSHALL (Resumed)

Senator FERGUSON. At this place, General, I would like to offer the statutory duties of the Chief of Staff into the record. I wonder whether you can read them into the record and answer questions as to what you understand to be the statutory duties?

Mr. MURPHY. Will the Senator, for the purpose of the record, give the source?

Senator FERGUSON. Pardon me?

Mr. MURPHY. Will the Senator, in order to have the record correct, give the source?

Senator FERGUSON. Will you look on the back of that? This is the United States Code.

Mr. MURPHY. The volume, page, and section?

General MARSHALL. United States Code, 1940 edition, page 491, paragraph 33. Do you wish me to read this into the record, Senator Ferguson?

Senator FERGUSON. Yes.

General MARSHALL (reading):

The Chief of Staff shall preside over the War Department General Staff and, under the direction of [3162] the President, or of the Secretary of War under the direction of the President, shall cause to be made, by the War Department General Staff, the necessary plans for recruiting, organizing, supplying equipment, mobilizing, training, and demobilizing the Army of the United States, and for the use of the military forces for national defense. He shall transmit to the Secrtary of War the plans and recommendations prepared for that purpose by the War Department General Staff and advise him in regard thereto; upon the approval of such plans or recommendations by the Secretary of War, he shall act as the agent of the Secretary of War in carrying the same into effect.

Do you wish me to read the various references in parentheses?
Senator FERGUSON. Yes; you might as well.

General MARSHALL (reading):

(June 3, 1916, ch. 134, par. 5, 39 Stat. 167; June 4, 1920, ch. 227, subch. I, par. 5, 41 Stat. 764.)

Paragraph 33-a. Further duties of Chief of Staff.

Subject to the provisions of sections 32 and 1193 of this title, the Chief of Staff, under the direction of the President, or of the Secretary of War, under the direction of the President, shall have supervision of all troops of the line and of the Inspector General's, Judge Advocate General's, Medical, and Ordnance Departments of the Quartermaster Corps, [3167] of the Corps of En

gineers, and of the Signal Corps, and, in all matters pertaining to the command, discipline, or administration of the existing military establishment, of the Adjutant General's Department, and he shall perform such other military duties not otherwise assigned by law as may be assigned to him by the President. Those are the two paragraphs I see here on this page 491.

Senator FERGUSON. You were familiar with the statutory duties of the Chief of Staff!

General MARSHALL. Yes, sir.

[3164] Senator FERGUSON. You heard the testimony of General Gerow that he took full responsibility for the action to be taken, and not taken, on General Short's reply to the message of the 27th of November?

General MARSHALL. I read that, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Do you agree that it was his full responsibility? General MARSHALL. I would not say that was his full responsibility. It was his direct responsibility for each department of the General Staff, of which his was one.

Senator FERGUSON. Do you, by virtue of your office, share that responsibility?

General MARSHALL. I think I do, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. It is the responsibility of the Chief of Staff when he asks for a reply, and the reply takes a certain form, if any further direction is necessary, it is his responsibility to give that

direction?

General MARSHALL. That would be his responsibility, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. The Chief of Staff?

General MARSHALL. The Chief of Staff, that is myself.

Senator FERGUSON. Yes, I understand. And that is the kind of a message that General Short's reply was?

General MARSHALL. Yes, sir.

[3165] Senator FERGUSON. I would just like to ask a few questions, going back, on the giving to the British of the breaking of the code. That was a very important matter, was it not, General?

General MARSHALL. Very important.

Senator FERGUSON. To share our secrets with another country?
General MARSHALL. Very important, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Particularly so when we are at peace?
General MARSHALL. Yes, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Now would General Miles have authority, in his position, to perform that act?

General MARSHALL. No, sir, not of his own initiative.

Senator FERGUSON. Then, can you tell us who did it in this case? As I understand it, the record now shows that it was done sometime in January of 1941.

General MARSHALL. I presume that he did it after consultation with me.

Senator FERGUSON. No one else would be in authority to perform such an act?

General MARSHALL. The Secretary of War would be the only other

person.

Senator FERGUSON. You know of no act that the Secretary of War took with relation to this code with Britain?

[3166] General MARSHALL. No, sir; none whatever.

Senator FERGUSON. Could I ask now from counsel whether or not we have the so-called evaluation of the British? Does the committee have those instruments?

Mr. MITCHELL. What do you mean by "evaluations"?

Senator FERGUSON. What the General has described as evaluations. Mr. MITCHELL. We examined them. They are under that arrangement, as you know, of nothing received from a foreign country can be divulged without clearing it with that country first.

We looked over those documents, and we did not ourselves see anything pertinent in them, and therefore, we have not, up to date, asked the British Government to clear them. So they are there, and I think they are open to inspection even though they have not been cleared. Senator FERGUSON. Is there any question about their being open to the committee's inspection?

Mr. MITCHELL. Not at all. Nobody has ever asked for them. We have seen thousands of documents that did not seem pertinent to us. We have not dumped material of that kind on you unless you asked for it.

[3167]

Senator FERGUSON. I want the record to show what we

have and what we do not have.

Do you know, General, whether or not you consulted with anyone in relation to this exchange of information between the British and America?

General MARSHALL. I have no recollection of that now, sir. I have a very definite recollection of frequent conversations with General Strong, who succeeded or who followed General Miles. I have no recollection of such conversations with General Miles. Those conversations that I happen to recollect were after we were once engaged in war.

Senator FERGUSON. Do you know whether or not, General, the Japs ever knew that we were breaking their codes?

General MARSHALL. I do not know one way or the other. I assume that they did not, or the procedure would have changed almost instantly.

Senator FERGUSON. I wish you would refer to exhibit 2, page 122. General MARSHALL. Is that at the top or the bottom of the page? The VICE CHAIRMAN. You have the wrong book, General. Senator FERGUSON. Exhibit 2. It is the yellow backed book. Now I refer you to the second from the last sentence in paragraph 3. [3168] General MARSHALL. How does that start, sir? Senator FERGUSON.

There are also some suspicions that they read some of our codes. Therefore, we wish to exercise the utmost caution in accomplishing this mission. Also, any telegrams exchanged between you and Panama should be very simple.

Do you know whether we had any other information than that particular intercept, which was the 23rd of June, 1941? Were there any other intercepts that indicated that they knew we were breaking their code?

General MARSHALL. I have a vague recollection of another one, but I think it was after we were engaged in the war.

Senator FERGUSON. Nothing before the war!

General MARSHALL. Not to my knowledge.

Senator FERGUSON. You indicated yesterday, General, that certain information was kept from the Roberts commission. I believe you

indicated, as I remember the testimony, there were certain parts taken out of the Roberts report.

General MARSHALL. Yes, sir. The intention that I wanted to convey to Governor Dewey was that the Roberts commission had the magic available to them but it had to be withdrawn out of their records in the report which was released to the public.

Senator FERGUSON. Now who changed the Roberts report? [3169] Who altered it to take those things out?

General MARSHALL. I do not know, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Where did you get your knowledge that there was a change in the Roberts report before it was issued to the public! General MARSHALL. I could not tell you that, sir. Undoubtedly there were conversations in regard to the delicacy of the exposure of that material, but I do not recall the details of its control, because that would be one thing that the Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Navy, presumably, and probably even the President, would become involved in.

The board, as I recall, was under the direction of the President.

[3170] Senator FERGUSON. Did you have anything to do with the personnel of that board, the Roberts board, or the Roberts commission?

General MARSHALL. My recollection of the matter is that the Secretary of War consulted with me as to what his recommendation might be as to the Army members of the board, and I had just brought General McNarney back to this country in connection with the proposed reorganization of the War Department, and as he was an air man, and a very able individual, I suggested to the Secretary of War that General McNarney might be a very appropriate Army member. As to the other Army member, that was General McCoy. Senator FERGUSON. He was retired, General, was he not? General MARSHALL. He was retired and an old acquaintance of the Secretary of War, and, as I recall, Mr. Stimson brought up his name as the man he thought would fit the job, and I concurred.

Senator FERGUSON. Now, when did General McNarney leave the War Plans Division?

General MARSHALL. He never was in the War Plans. Oh, he was in the War Plans Division possibly a while back; I do not recall when, but I can find that in the records; but at the time he appeared on the Roberts board he had been in England almost a year in connection with the Air [3171] Corps.

Senator FERGUSON. Was not he in War Plans sometime the first week in December, about the time some of these things occurred?

General MARSHALL. No, sir; he was not even on duty in the War Department then. As far as my recollection goes, I had just brought him back from a year in England for the purpose of being on the board for the reorganization of the War Department that I was just completing.

Senator FERGUSON. Do you know whether or not he was familiar with the whole magic set-up?

General MARSHALL. I could not answer that, sir. The probability is that he did not know it.

Senator FERGUSON. Did the War Plans know about the magic? General MARSHALL. The head of War Plans did know about that. Senator FERGUSON. Was he ever deputy of the War Plans?

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